Melee bug fixed or Improved B.A.I.?

[TheJian]

Well i have been looking at this the last 2 days and have found that yes the bug looks like its fixed, but Improver B.A.I?

It's still the same to me units still stand right front of my line and dont engage just die.....And when they should melee they dont as in when all ammo is gone what do they do stand and get picked off...

Now i said this because i see people talking like the game is fixed now.....Its that all you guys think needs it 2 be fixed is the melee bug?

The set up i use to test was the first map in play battle did not think it was cool to pick a flat map and then say its fixed. First i used small then med unit - size small battles are longer -N/N settings....Took out all att and cavalry just line units. Use the me/US computer/US and did nothing just watch. I got one draw on a 20 min timer all others come 2 be a rout and thats with me doing nothing so is the B.A.I fixed is this what we want (IMO if a player does nothing the computer should be able 2 win if not whats the point in calling it AI)....Yes without the new DM lite the cup when into melee 3 min in....But i will say the smaller the units shootout longer and the AI can handle them a little better IMO.

So yes the bug is gone somewhat you still get it, its up 2 you how you feel about when they do it.
Once more does this make the game some how much better to play now just because the units walk in a line and get killed and dont fight back now? Even with the bug i must say it was a battle not just a shoot out....with this fix as is i dont have to do anything and still win, not good 4 my ETW ego...

[Preussen Gloria]

But excuse me,we can't pretend more,DARTH did a fine job improving this poor BAI!
remember that he worked without any modding tools and many people who tried this MOD agree to say that this is
so far the best BAI we ever had for empire,even better than the 1.3.
remember this job was done without any patch from the CA,so as for me i am quite happy with DARTH's BAI becouse
i know he can't do more untill the CA guys will...
1) release the modding tools
or...
2) release a small patch that will fix the BAI , even if i think this is not going to happen....sadly

[Malkuth]

But excuse me,we can't pretend more,DARTH did a fine job improving this poor BAI!
remember that he worked without any modding tools and many people who tried this MOD agree to say that this is
so far the best BAI we ever had for empire,even better than the 1.3.
remember this job was done without any patch from the CA,so as for me i am quite happy with DARTH's BAI becouse
i know he can't do more untill the CA guys will...
1) release the modding tools
or...
2) release a small patch that will fix the BAI , even if i think this is not going to happen....sadly

You know the sad part about all this, A poor single guy without any tools can fix the AI while the guys that actually built the game, and have the tools can't do crap.

Its really sad. Hard to believe. Seems to be the year that crazy ass crap seems to be going on that you can't believe.

I myself still hope I wake up soon. LOL>

[Ryo]

But excuse me,we can't pretend more,DARTH did a fine job improving this poor BAI!
remember that he worked without any modding tools and many people who tried this MOD agree to say that this is
so far the best BAI we ever had for empire,even better than the 1.3.
remember this job was done without any patch from the CA,so as for me i am quite happy with DARTH's BAI becouse
i know he can't do more untill the CA guys will...
1) release the modding tools
or...
2) release a small patch that will fix the BAI , even if i think this is not going to happen....sadly

totally agree with my Prussian friend!

thanks again Darth!!!

[TheJian]

Yes i know all he has done has told us many times as well as the Moderators...... (why is it we cant say a mod is this or that, people get all worked up but CA is open game)..... Im asking is the bug fix really makes the BAI or the game all that much better? I am one of them who tried his mod as you have....As far as tools the files he does dont need mod tools. Yes the bug is gone big up to all the people who helped but i thought it was a Collective work..................lol so much for that ideal

[Halvars-XII]

Hmm its not one bit fixed!!!

Playing as Prussia as i usually do, I find myself in war with an Poland-Russia alliance against me, so when i fight them (in battle strong xD) the "Russians" open fire at my units as they come close, as they should. But when the pholish comes, they go straight to melee even though they dont even have bayonets. AND then i go WTF!? if anyone should have gone melee on my ass it should have been the RUSSIANS!!!

[Preussen Gloria]

Hmm its not one bit fixed!!!

Playing as Prussia as i usually do, I find myself in war with an Poland-Russia alliance against me, so when i fight them (in battle strong xD) the "Russians" open fire at my units as they come close, as they should. But when the pholish comes, they go straight to melee even though they dont even have bayonets. AND then i go WTF!? if anyone should have gone melee on my ass it should have been the RUSSIANS!!!

Hello Halvars
try to use DARTH's lite 4.6 without any other mods installed,at the moment it's working just for vanilla units,we discovered how to add the BAI at our mods as well,but we're still working on it.
also don't run the game with modmanager,just add this row in your script file...

mod darthmodlite.pack;

then run empire just with the exe.
it should work

[TheJian]

I think the DM lite mod helps Halvars-XII im just talking about my game even with the fix the BAI is still sorry. Dont know what this about "also don't run the game with modmanager,just add this row in your script file." it works fine with me all ways has the Modmanger is the way 2 go or you can do it by hand you get the same out come.

[Yarkis de Bodemloze]

Darthmod does not fix the BAI. It just helps with one aspect of it and that's setting up proper fireing lines. The BAI has still some very stupid programming routines, and these are not modable.

[Preussen Gloria]

Darthmod does not fix the BAI. It just helps with one aspect of it and that's setting up proper fireing lines. The BAI has still some very stupid programming routines, and these are not modable.

We never said that the BAI is fixed,what we said is that DARTH's mod fix most of the melee medievalesk festival that you can usually see in the vanilla game.
for a complete fix as stated before only CA can do it,or they release the complete mod tools.
after all empire never had a good BAI

[aus-rotten]

Darthmod does not fix the BAI. It just helps with one aspect of it and that's setting up proper fireing lines. The BAI has still some very stupid programming routines, and these are not modable.

I just can tell from my 3 campaign batles (h/h) prussia (me) against austria:
-its not only that the AI melees much lesser, i´ve been flanked by infantry and cav, they even try to go in my back
-I´ve seen my first tactical withdraw on the battlemap: Ai attacks with infsntry and cav; i fought them back, the whole line withdraws and sets up a new position (behind walls!)

sure there are still flaws and sometimes melle happens, and sometimes the stand in a strange angle....
BUT guys please, do you have already forgotten was it was before. it was nothing, absolutly nothing. chickenrun chickenrun chickenrun... remember?

I don´t understand whats this thread all ybout, you should shuffle on your knees for what darth and the other guys have done here. if you don´t like it,ok. if you don´t see a BIG difference, check your eyes.
whatever, im back in the war.
there will be blood.

[Vanillamarine]

Did darth improve the BAI? Hell yes, this is the best I have seen so far.

Is it still very stupid and easy to kick around? Hell yes, Medieval 2 Total war BAI is sooooooooo much better, I wonder for what they used their fcuking ressources man, probably the loading screens.

[DARTH VADER]

I am really in a vacation mode now. I think I have done my job. I explained to everyone as I could. My updates have swift information about every change for someone to read. My files are open to examine. It is now a personal endeavor, as it was for me, for every modder to find the solution on how to implement the perfect BAI. It may be not exactly the same as in DarthMod because the game engine is chaotic, so some changes would need some other values? Who knows. I know that DarthMod 4,6 works as intented and I have openly explained as much as I could.

I also expected and now I read the usual unthankful voices of people who do not understand of what it has been achieved. The best reason I should give for this is because they have not playtested DarthMod as I advise (Custom battles for swift testing, campaign battles for the real thing). There may be other reasons as well. These people will never learn and I ignore them from now on. They will realize who they are if they ever address to me again.

[hellas1]

Hi all,

I can say this:

After, RE-testing the BAI I've come to this solid conclusion:

Darthmod's BAI IS better than the current BAI and it's better than the NOTHING which CA has given us or has talked about giving us so far.

You don't like it? That's one thing.

The BAI IS better than Vanilla and Darth put time into his work. Props to him.

Now, if for some reason the BAI isn't better for your game & machine, I don't know what to say!

hellas1

[TheJian]

Hi all,

I can say this:

After, RE-testing the BAI I've come to this solid conclusion:

Darthmod's BAI IS better than the current BAI and it's better than the NOTHING which CA has given us or has talked about giving us so far.

You don't like it? That's one thing.

The BAI IS better than Vanilla and Darth put time into his work. Props to him.

Now, if for some reason the BAI isn't better for your game & machine, I don't know what to say!

hellas1

The BAI is better on your computer, cool glad 2 hear. I have the same BAI that came with the game. All i'm asking is does the Melee bug fix, fix the BAI (no IMO as well as CA). Let me say it this way. Would you want a patch that really does something to the BAI, or DMlite???? I think we all want a patch. Darth has done great work, so have many others. Mad props 2 all!!!!! Some of you guys, (even he does) feel someone is after Darth(Luke is) or the DM mod. I thought this was a collective project? I did not start with DMlite nor did Darth, the collective did. What it turned out 2 be, had nothing 2 do with why i did my test. So all you fans, who rushed 2 his D.....I don't think he needs it, 4 what? His works stand on its own, just as this fix does. I only looked into Darth's fix, because I know he has been working on this 4 a long time, and all the updates he gives out (also because I want it to see if this was really that big, or just a modder who is pissed he did not get Citizenship. I have seen some modders come to believe, they can do no wrong. Or was this all because of some principle. You did go off on Astaroth, Darth.). Look I come home from work,(when i was working) and see the post the collective think tank. I think cool, then i see its working with a mod. Not very collective, but i still have faith even if i know this could turn out all wrong.(some people mod for the community, some for themselves they become something in the minds of the few) Then i come back and find a post BAI fixed...........lol

So I load it up, and YES I got a 40min battle! The melee bug is gone at times, but the BAI is still the same. Then after more test, I have seen some battles like i never seen b4, great... But i did this one test with a, 4v4 US vs CHEROKEE. The first battle it took 25min b4 the Cherokee did anything at all(could also be the map i used). Thus i did more test with 1v1 vanilla and DM. I just could not get the Cherokee battle out of my mind. I did more test with other melee factions, some pro DM some not good....Then i post "Melee bug fixed or Improved B.A.I.?". Im not out to get you or, your mod .Your mod does more than any other i have seen, but not played to fix the melee bug.I just don't know what it has done, 2 the other like the Cherokee. And in no way is the BAI fixed. Perhaps we are all talking about the same thing your melee fix, but some of your fans keep saying you fixed the BAI. Just look at this thread. Even after you say

Ha. Well I never stated that I changed the hard coded AI, did I? But indirectly I influenced it, as CA correctly calls that. If I also influenced modders, players and even CA to re-think facts about the game and how it can be more improved than throwing it in the garbage, I am very happy. I hope the AI patch will be for ETW and of course we will have to adapt again all modders.

CA was helping Darth 2 understand how the things we can change(the body), work with the hard code(the brain).

"As a result a couple of the development team have had a few brief email chats with Darth helping him to understand what some of the values in the database mean.
Darth's mod does change acceleration and deceleration locomotion values, and combat values for units, thus changing unit balance values, which as a result influences the BAI and thus might make it less inclined to get involved in a melee conflict.
That is not the same as programming fixes for the BAI. Changing database values doesn't change the actual BAI or change the Battle AI code. That isn't possible with the changes that Darth has made.

I also expected and now I read the usual unthankful voices of people who do not understand of what it has been achieved. The best reason I should give for this is because they have not playtested DarthMod as I advise (Custom battles for swift testing, campaign battles for the real thing). There may be other reasons as well. These people will never learn and I ignore them from now on. They will realize who they are if they ever address to me again.

For a modder 2 say this, its funny. You mod the game because you feel something is wrong with it, or see something you can do better. Are you unthankful of all the work CA has done, I don't think so. Im not unthankful at all, of your work or the work of CA. If we don't give CA a pass, why should you get one? Yes you have a fix 2 the melee ,but do you know if it hurts any other unit. This is the second time i have see you post something personal like im going to take all my toys home and play all by myself, come on man we are all here because we love the game.... Yes Darth, i was did look at you mod with the hope it did not work.... This was because im a sick man...lol Just like we hold CA 2 things i also hold up others. Yes of all the mods out i have only played DMUC, AUM and HusserlTw mods... I think DM looks great when your doing pictures or a movie...


CA was helping him 2 understand "As a result a couple of the development team have had a few brief email chats with Darth helping him to understand what some of the values in the database mean.
Darth's mod does change acceleration and deceleration locomotion values, and combat values for units, thus changing unit balance values, which as a result influences the BAI and thus might make it less inclined to get involved in a melee conflict.
That is not the same as programming fixes for the BAI. Changing database values doesn't change the actual BAI or change the Battle AI code. That isn't possible with the changes that Darth has made.

CA has known about this 4 some time, so its not the collective(and we see how collective it has turned out 2 be) that made CA see this lol
It was the many players who said the games AI sucked (But when has it not), perhaps the HOI3 team did more than we did.

Darth and Swiss Halberdier, I want to get you a little something 4 Christmas. 2 show how your work helps MY game...LOL and i do mean little.........any of the DLC or one of the old games let me know!!

[DARTH VADER]

Hellas, please I do not need support like that. Always openly we must say true things when we know them exactly:
This is what you wrote in the totalwar com forums:

Hi all,

I did a retest battery of game playing with Darthmod and I found that the melee bug has subsided, the BAI is better but squares still occur
irraticaly and I still end with a Heroic Victory most of the time.

This is disappointing. I'm using Darthmod lite, perhaps the full version will be best maybe not.

CA fix the BAI soon...or NTW sales will suffer.
hellas

This is sad, because squares do not occur in DarthMod, others can concur in this, and your comment like you win heroic victory every time does not win anything for you when someone reads you. So because I do not like 2 faces in 2 forums, you are black listed. Sorry.

And also enough for this NTW boycott freakishness from so many members. I will buy Napoleon and I will enjoy it more than Empire Total War. The rest can play WoW, or FPS idiotic games.

EDIT:

Hellas1 has understood and stated publicly that he has made an error in the installation of the mod so I can understand that these things happen and now you are "white listed". You were and are a greek friend also.

[MorganH.]

Guys,Darth,look at this; post 105 specifically !
http://shoguntotalwar.yuku.com/topic/66199?page=6

Jolly Good news here eh !!!

[DARTH VADER]

Ha. Well I never stated that I changed the hard coded AI, did I? But indirectly I influenced it, as CA correctly calls that. If I also influenced modders, players and even CA to re-think facts about the game and how it can be more improved than throwing it in the garbage, I am very happy. I hope the AI patch will be for ETW and of course we will have to adapt again all modders.

[rubenandthejets]

Great stuff!
Might have to crank ETW up again once the paich comes out.....a nice little present!

[Ragga]

yikes!