Proof Heaven and Hell exist

[Moorish guy]

Im not to sure about this but thought I'd bring up the topic anyway String theroy was it or some theroy states that the universe Is made up of an Unlimited amount of Dimensions were every single Scenario or place Imaginable exist so Hows to say A dimension with Fluffy clouds Humanoid Beings with wings an utter paradise and an Unseen Entity that rules the Multiverse lives and In contrast a big pit of fire with monsters beings torturing evil people and at the bottom a giant monster that chews on you if you Hitlers level of Bad So is one tiny hole tough and thats the question that do we go there when we die.

[Monarchist]

When you reduce Heaven and Hell to questions of mere inter-dimensional politics, the entire thing falls apart. If Heaven and Hell really are just other dimensions, should black holes in the Universe manage to act as door ways for us to the fiery pits or the clouded heights? What if Jesus just happened to be around as a wormhole was passing through Earth's space in the continuum, and He was sucked up into Heaven at the right time? It's all so abstract, but it also physicalises Heaven and Hell far too much.

[MaximiIian]

If Heaven and Hell really are just other dimensions, should black holes in the Universe manage to act as door ways for us to the fiery pits

That's actually the plot for Event Horizon; travelling through wormholes sends the spaceship through hell itself, causing horrific madness in anyone who experiences it.

[Strelok]

When you reduce Heaven and Hell to questions of mere inter-dimensional politics, the entire thing falls apart. If Heaven and Hell really are just other dimensions, should black holes in the Universe manage to act as door ways for us to the fiery pits or the clouded heights?

Wouldn't those be wormholes?

With a black hole you hit the singularity and you're dead.

For a wormhole you also need a white hole and we don't even know if those even exist (at least I think).

[Helm]

The one thing science can't ever do is prove that something fictional exists for real.

[Antiochos VII Sidetes]

Looking for proof of the divine isn't gonna take you very far, kid.

[iudas]

[Monarchist]

Sarcastic one liners really aren't very intelligent or helpful, my charming and dear atheist friends.

[iudas]

Sarcastic one liners really aren't very intelligent or helpful, my charming and dear atheist friends.

Nor is believing in shiny energy thingies inside us that go to heaven and hell after death...

[Monarchist]

Nor is believing in shiny energy thingies inside us that go to heaven and hell after death...

Well, thank God I do not believe in such things! The problem is that atheists tend to have the child's view of Christianity, never really bothering to go deeper than "souls are little shiny things inside us". Obviously, we are the "shiny energy thingies", and can't be so facetiously classified.

Brevity is the soul of wit, or the soul of getting to the point at least.

Wit shouldn't be the concern of thinking people, unless it's past the end of the day and you're tired. I don't strive to be smarmy just to give a chuckle to those who agree with me!

Fpr another it renders heaven and hell just an infinitesimal element of the universe, which I can tell you now would not go down well with Christian preachers.

That's about the end of the conversation. They're reducing the infinite mysteries of the universe to mere atoms.

Heaven and Hell do not exist.

That's just brilliant, isn't it? You have absolutely no way of knowing such a thing, but let's just claim it any way. I myself have no way of knowing, either, but it seems more likely one way than the other. At least I tend to admit that I can never say "X does not exist", because I can't know until I die. Such claims are squarely in the realm of pointlessness!

Even if there was somehow a heaven dimension and a hell dimension, it would take some kind of superintelligent race of hyperbeings to create a system in which when a person dies, they pass through a wormhole into one or the other depending on how they acted in life. That is just impractical, and besides it would still prove Christianity wrong.

I don't see how (if I may paraphrase you) a "superintelligent hyperbeing" creating a system of wormhole passages for human beings upon death disproves Christianity. If anything, the idea seems to reinforce such a theistic position. It need not be a race, but still a thing. You've described God well enough, but cloaked it in sci-fi rubbish so that the premise seems silly.

[Helm]

Wit shouldn't be the concern of thinking people, unless it's past the end of the day and you're tired. I don't strive to be smarmy just to give a chuckle to those who agree with me!

It's just Shakespearean for cut the out the BS. Some people here seem to think the more they type the more valid becomes their point when really they're just waffling on.

[iudas]

Well, thank God I do not believe in such things! The problem is that atheists tend to have the child's view of Christianity, never really bothering to go deeper than "souls are little shiny things inside us". Obviously, we are the "shiny energy thingies", and can't be so facetiously classified.

No true Scotsman would do such a thing.

[Copperknickers II]

That's just brilliant, isn't it? You have absolutely no way of knowing such a thing, but let's just claim it any way. I myself have no way of knowing, either, but it seems more likely one way than the other. At least I tend to admit that I can never say "X does not exist", because I can't know until I die. Such claims are squarely in the realm of pointlessness!

That is where you are wrong. Actually, it is just one iota of a veritable (although metaphorical) universe full of ways in which you are wrong, but this is the most important way in which you are wrong, because you are really very, very wrong.

No, i do not 'know' that Heaven and Hell do not exist, in the same way that i do not 'know' that i exist. But it is far from pointless to say that they do not exist. In fact, it is pivotal, instrumentally essential, truly sublime, that i can say Heaven and Hell do not exist. So much so that i will say it again: Heaven and Hell do not exist.

The crux of the matter is logical empiricism. A hypothesis is formed, and with evidence to back it up, it becomes a theory. Heaven and Hell are hypotheses, of sorts. But they have no proof. They fall under some as yet undiscovered bounds of existance, outside the borders of tangible reality. Therefore, we can say nothing about them. If we have no evidence for something, we must say that it does not exist. We cannot say 'this may or may not exist' because that helps noone. We can only conduct experiments and gather evidence on the bases that something either exists, or does not exist.

It is, in fact, completely and utterly pointless to say that Heaven and Hell might exist, because they are impossible to prove therefore are irrelevent. Furthermore they are contrary to existing evidence of the universe, in short, nothing but fantasies and daydreams that waste time and waylay minds.

I don't see how (if I may paraphrase you) a "superintelligent hyperbeing" creating a system of wormhole passages for human beings upon death disproves Christianity. If anything, the idea seems to reinforce such a theistic position. It need not be a race, but still a thing. You've described God well enough, but cloaked it in sci-fi rubbish so that the premise seems silly.

God is not a superintelligent hyperbeing, he is an omniscient being transcendant of the physical and non-physical universe. Were i in the habit of emulating American TV shows, i might conclude 'duh!'.

[Helm]

Brevity is the soul of wit, or the soul of getting to the point at least.

[Copperknickers II]

Brevity is the soul of wit, or the soul of getting to the point at least.

It is indeed.

Heaven and Hell do not exist. Dimensions are not wierd places where coin tosses come out different or everyone is made out of paper aeroplanes, they occupy the same reality as everything else, just from a different angle.

Even if there was somehow a heaven dimension and a hell dimension, it would take some kind of superintelligent race of hyperbeings to create a system in which when a person dies, they pass through a wormhole into one or the other depending on how they acted in life. That is just impractical, and besides it would still prove Christianity wrong.

[Silver Guard]

For one string theory is an unproved theory, it is still battling with several others for approval, it is one of many possible theories of the most complex elements of physics. It is not a proof for anything.

For another, now you're messing with theology, that suggests that people could, should inter-dimentional travel be made possible, invade heaven (a rediculous concept). Fpr another it renders heaven and hell just an infinitesimal element of the universe, which I can tell you now would not go down well with Christian preachers.

[Helm]

It's not like they could open a portal into Hell like in the Doom video games and that film Event Horizon, cool though that is in the context of a sci-fi setting. You may as well have them open up a portal into the Land of Narnia for real.

[Silver Guard]

That's not really what I was referring to but it can do as a reference, there's no reason to believe that in future, in a universe bound by string theory, we would not be able to pass from one reality into the next, we simply cannot imagine how far our technology will go that far into the future.

[Helm]

That's not really what I was referring to but it can do as a reference, there's no reason to believe that in future, in a universe bound by string theory, we would not be able to pass from one reality into the next, we simply cannot imagine how far our technology will go that far into the future.

That's generally how faster than light hyperspace travel works in sci-fi.

[Silver Guard]

But it must be admitted that although it is theologically odd, there could be hell-esque and heaven-esque dimentions, who follow the same rules in physics.

For example, it is technically possible to have winged humans, they would be fairly odd anatomically but it's possible, and to have a being of such power to control thousands of them and have knowledge of both that dimention and others is also possible, just very improbable, and very little like the God described in any of our relgions.

What seems to be described is possible heaven/hell/God-like elements of other dimentions, not actual realities of these concepts.