Traitor to our people..?

[IHV]

Ive started my Silvan Elves campaign and have only played 25 turns but already 2 of my 3-4 stacks small reinforcment armies have gone over to rebels or something

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I played Rohan for roughly 150 turns and not once did this happen. Is it some sort of elvish thingy or why does this happen. Nor is it bad enough to lose your armies thats supposed to reinforce the frontline but as i understand they become rebels so immidiate threat aswell.

[Darkhorse]

Yeah, it happens usually not that often, but it happens nonetheless.

Try moving troops around in larger stacks, so 1 larger stack as opposed to 3 or 4 smaller stacks. If you have a general spare add him to the stack. Securing your lands may help too, I.e building watchtowers and dealing with rebel armies.

[Blackorc]

Elvish traitors sound not verry realistic to my pointy ear.

[Some Random Evil Guy]

Elvish traitors sound not verry realistic to my pointy ear.

Maybe they just didn't want to die in combat but instead wanted to live?

[IHV]

Havent happend anymore besides those 2 now. And yes i always surround my borders with watchtowers. Are the towers only 200g or do they take some sort of upkeep later aswell?

Btw i like your siggy Blackorc

[Kahvipannu]

Havent happend anymore besides those 2 now. And yes i always surround my borders with watchtowers. Are the towers only 200g or do they take some sort of upkeep later aswell?

Btw i like your siggy Blackorc

Watchtowers do not have upkeep

Generals with low loyalty / obedience, can't remember which one it was, usually have higher change to rebel. I also think that factionleader's authority affects this also some way, at least it would make sense..

[Haldir]

Et tu Tegalad.

[PSIHOPAT]

I like traitors...excepting when they are not on my side...they are useful...it would be good to see more traitors in the game...especially for humans...because humans really are a species with problems at "blind obedience"...

[Kovas]

I like traitors...excepting when they are not on my side...they are useful...it would be good to see more traitors in the game...especially for humans...because humans really are a species with problems at "blind obedience"...

But you always are saying that you hate them

[PSIHOPAT]

I like traitors when they help me

But i kill them after i reach at my purpose

For traitors must to not be shown mercy

Because if they betray someone,then can betray anyone

[Oldtimer]

Hi all,

on VH/M difficulty I usually play, I have not been betrayed even once...

Regards, Oldtimer

[Graviak]

In my opinion, as said before, a low authority Factionleader, will be the cause of the betrayals, if your army moves without a general. Loyalty below 4 stars, may get you Generals to betray you.

In my campaigns, i always get the traitors, when my beloved factionleader dies and some " Cuckold " moves to the throne.

Times of sorrow!

Graviak

[PSIHOPAT]

It would be better if rebels go under control of faction who is in war with faction who have problems with loyalty.

If the faction with "problems" don't have war with anybody...than rebels are just rebels...not traitors...

[Blackorc]

Playing with Silvan Elves are traitors a bit of problem because I dont use more then 5/6 unit of archers and they abandon you pretty fast the best way to deal with is useing large stacks with good generals (thranduil,legolass,haldir)

[Withwnar]

There's also the possibility of another faction's diplomat bribing them to disappear. From memory they do just that - they don't turn into rebels.

For the record I have very rarely seen Traitors in TATW. But I also rarely have un-generaled armies roaming. And if the general has low loyalty then I don't put him in charge of an important army; especially one being sent to some distant war.

[Nexor]

There's also the possibility of another faction's diplomat bribing them to disappear. From memory they do just that - they don't turn into rebels. For the record I have very rarely seen Traitors in TATW. But I also rarely have un-generaled armies roaming. And if the general has low loyalty then I don't put him in charge of an important army; especially one being sent to some distant war.

It must be that I have played more than 300 hours of Elves and I was never betrayed a single time.

[Hanti]

Old topic, same problem, so I am not gonna create another topic.

Situation: Woodland Elves. Small stacks. My watchtowers everywhere. No enemy diplomats nor spies nearby. My spies are around.

Problem: I can't just move small 1-2 units captain stacks from town to town, as they tend to rebel 30-40% of the time. It's random, and with re-load spell, they can not betray.

So the question is: is there a way to reduce it? Any file to edit?
I know it's vanilla feature, but maybe it could be edited a little?

[DrDragun]

Check the Authority of your faction leader. Low authority will increase the chances of traitors. You can trade some retinues to your faction leader to increase their Authority, for example Banner of Orcs of the Misty Mountains if you get one from fighting orcs, or the Commander of the Galadhrim which Haldir starts with I believe (you can give it to Thranduil).

[Veteraan]

I was curious about this, so I did some quick testing about on which level of authority Thranduil starts a campaign. Played 4 turns without taking any action.

TATW 3.2 Tranduil starts with 6 authority and still has this value at turn 4.

MOS 1.62 Thranduil starts with 6 authority but has a level of 8 at turn 4.

A level 6 should be enough to significantly reduce the appearance of traitorous armies in my experience. At level 8 it should be a big exception.
Distance and (if I am not mistaken) a barrier in the connection to the "motherland" also influence the chances for troops rebelling.

Did one final test with MOS 1.62 since Hanti plays the Woodland Elves.
Start campaign: Thranduil authority level 6, at turn 10 it suddenly went up to level 8.
In turn 2 I dispatched one unit of woodland rangers and one unit of woodland spearman on a separate journey through the local woods. Both of the 1 unit armies besieged a rebel settlement each for a few turns and both lost the siege battle. I decided to put some distance between both units and Thranduil and took them out of the woods. The spearman stumbled upon some spiders, lost the battle and were reduced to 21 men. The woodland rangers numbered 58.
At the end of my test, turn 16, one unit ended up next to Forodrain and the other made it to Caras Galadon.
They did not betray our people.

[Hanti]

I was curious about this, so I did some quick testing about on which level of authority Thranduil starts a campaign. Played 4 turns without taking any action.

TATW 3.2 Tranduil starts with 6 authority and still has this value at turn 4.

MOS 1.62 Thranduil starts with 6 authority but has a level of 8 at turn 4.

A level 6 should be enough to significantly reduce the appearance of traitorous armies in my experience. At level 8 it should be a big exception.
Distance and (if I am not mistaken) a barrier in the connection to the "motherland" also influence the chances for troops rebelling.

Did one final test with MOS 1.62 since Hanti plays the Woodland Elves.
Start campaign: Thranduil authority level 6, at turn 10 it suddenly went up to level 8.
(...)

Well, tested and got it again.
I use MOS 1.62.

Thranduil starts with 6 authority and got no more till turn 11. It depends on luck with ancillaries anyway (I got Harp of Lorien, Artist, Overseer plus standard Marshall, Chancellor, Radagast, Emeralds, King).
One captain became a traitor.

I just wonder why modders have not disabled this option in descr_strat.txt (I did it after that 11 turn).
It suits very well Med II lore, but not so well TATW lore anyway.