Starting Lithuania

**Vaz** · December 17, 2009, 09:02 PM

Simple Questions, basically - what's the best way to play these? They're mediocre at best at first appearance until you get access to Dieva's Guard etc.

a) using 6.1 with KoH (doesn't touch Lithuania AFAIK), when do they become available?
and b) what's the best way to go?

**Velico** · December 17, 2009, 10:28 PM

#1 suggestion: Don't piss off the Catholics...
#2 : Take the castle in Finland, it populates fast and will be able to crank out superior troops sooner than many other forts, and it's isolated making it nice and protected.
#3 : Go for the Baltic. When I played Lith I took most of the rebel Baltic states.
#4 : Be opportunistic. Wait for your neighbors to go to war with someone else before starting a war (if possible). If you're at war, and having a hard time taking them on directly, take to the sea and raid. Use small strike forces to hop from city to city and destroy their economy.
#5 : Use cheap units that can be replenished easily when you're raiding. Keep a professional army wherever you think an imminent attack will be coming. Lith's economy sucks, there's no sugar coating it. Plunder, raid, ransom, do what you have to do to make money.

Hope this helps!

**Caesar Clivus** · December 17, 2009, 10:41 PM

Are you playing early or late campaign?

**spur390** · December 17, 2009, 11:47 PM

My last campaign was early campaign lithuania 6.2 rr/rc, hard/hard. I gave up after about 50 turns-I was fighting all my neighbors except hungary (very small border) and Cumans (very small border). No matter how many clear and heroic victories I got, they just kept coming, and the Novgrods started attacking with some very advanced troops that hit me hard, and I ran out of cash for many turns. I tried capturing territories as well as giving away territories but they still wouldn't accept it for peace. My main problem is that I neglected making alliances. I had an alliance with the Cumans but they were too far away. I also took too many rebel settlements-I took one settlement way down south that ended up being a liability, as it was too far away from my castles and too close to enemy castles. Another problem is that paganism is not common, and if you invade, be sure to include some priests in your operations. I got kicked out of a polish settlement I captured the turn before, and the polish got a free 3/4 stack in that region

Velico's baltic tip is very good. Cities there are closer packed and easy to defend. I should say easier. Lithuania's region capitals are very spread out with a lot of forest in between each capital. You must counteract this with lots of spies, so you can predict enemy movements. Also, the massive forests allow for ambushes. The faction blurb mentions ambushes being the key to survival. The problem is, the enemy often inadvertently sets up ambushes in your own territory. Spam the crap out of watchtowers and spies. Following enemy movements will also help track them (its quite annoying how you can have a spy tail an army and on the army's turn, it vanishes right before your eyes).

That being said Lithuania is very fun and I'll be trying it again once I make sure some modifications are working. They're the underdog pagans in a Catholic/Orthodox world, and the Teutons will come knocking, as if they didn't have enough on their hands. I'll race you to Jerusalem

**cedric37** · December 18, 2009, 02:43 AM

When i played Lithuania (SS6.1 like you - early), i had big problems at start, my troops were crap and i had to wait that my neighbours first besiege a rebel settlement, abandon the siege (after having weakened its garrison); then i could capture it...
The advice not to attack catholic is wise (crusade....), and the 1st thing you should do is to send a diplomat to Roma and make an alliance with him.
Also on the top of other advices given, Great Britain is a gold mine (cash-wise). I remember my game was really weird. I had nowhere to expand after scandinavia and my income was so poor that i sold out all my lands to denmark and purchased Arhus, Hamburg and other settlements from him. I then invaded Scotland, and finally rest of british isles. I moved my capital to London and the rich city gave me like 8-9K after some time.
Finally i pursued my invasion in France then HRE and Poland.
I don't recomend you to do the same as me, but just to say, Lithuania is a lot of fun playing ! ^^

**Massive_attack** · December 18, 2009, 08:45 AM

Im playing lithuania right now and own all the baltic states, am allied to poland and am currently fighting Novgorod to get to there home-town. My secret: Horse Archers.

HA's wiill win you wars, let alone battles. All Horse archer armies can sweep in and conquer settlments like nobodys buisness if being lead by a general.

your infantries suck though. Countermand this with geurillia tactics and ranged warfare, melee should only begin when you know victory is but a breath away.

Once you get several castles up, you will find the faction improves significantly,

Also, as a general rule: build only shrines of perkunas in castles, and only Dievas/Giltine (Giltine mainly for those cool Giltines chosen) in cities (followers of perkunas are trash imo).

**Vaz** · December 19, 2009, 08:30 PM

Just realised I'd not thanked you guys yet for your help! So +Rep to all.

@ CC, I'm doing Early, but wasn't sure. I decided to stick with the one campaign I'd practised the most with.

@ Massive Attack, I know the value of HA's. It's a pain that Novgorod are insistent on spamming Kazak's which wipe the floor with Lith Cavalry, but otherwise, they don't do too bad. My Prince currently has 4-5 full units on Silver Chevron after several sally battles, while my other general is becoming a great siege defender - when defending a siege, he's 22 and has Full Command and a Gold Chevron BG, it's a shame the Vilnius though is barely getting to build anything though.

As to the shrines, that's handy to know! I hadn't looked to deeply at it, but it's to be able to do something useful with them. No Daevas Guard/Giltines Chosen for me yet though, despite a 6 Chivalry FL. I've just dropped him in Turku now though, but no Visby, thanks to the Danes deciding to not bother defending their own lands, and instead capture the recently rebelled former Norwegian Visby as I was enroute, and they're currently too powerful to break the ceasefire.

Poland's also got the Castle to the West, so I've now decided to spam like crazy my priests into that land - it's currently 60% pagan, and I've got 3 spies in. However, my Hungarian allies after getting defeated by the early Poland stacks have fought back, and have expanded down toward Greece and up into a few Polish Territories, so I might start making a move there when they move the stack out/it rebels.

@ Cedric - I'd not really enjoyed Migration campaigns, other than attempting to take my current Antioch campaign into Scotland and do the same, only to get sunk by a half stack of Moorish ships near Gibraltar. Quite funny, considering all I had left was Antioch, Edessa, and a Diplomat in Rome. I'll remember your words though, I'm steadily capturing rebel Norwegian Locations west of Turku.

@ Spur - Race??? Haha, you win, mate! I'm a turtler. As for 6.2, you're a brave man! Too hard for me, plus I like Kingdoms of Heaven, and seeing Jerusalem/Antioch and the Pope do well. I was heading down to the Baltic, but Poland, Hungary and Kiev just went "whoomph" and took like 6 settlements between them in that single turn, so turned my attention to Novgorod, and am doing quite well, with Reval and Riga almost enshrined in Heroic Victories. Watchtowers are my favourite =) I never play toggle_fow, so stick with the tried and tested watchtower every 5 steps, haha. Combined with 3 Half Stack Horse Archers and defended by a few Latvian Crossbows,they're doing alright.

@ Velico - 1. Indeed! I've kept the military well away from Poland - they've got enough to deal with the HRE, Hungarians and Danes attacking them. Just waiting for the crusade to see about 20 Stacks near to my land seeing a nigh undefended town with Militia units as the few guard to stop rebellions.
2. Priests, love them. Playing KoH, they're almost a requirement for the first 50 turns or so, as you are training them up to remove the Islamic influence.
3. Like I said, a few issues with that. I.e Hungary + Kiev, both allies, both very strong.
4. I'm doing that now with Kiev and Cumans, I have perfect status with the former, and good with the latter, and while Kiev can't really make an attack, they're holding well enough.
5. Hmmm... Maybe that's why I have 1K Production at best =D I have 3 HA Half Stacks wandering around/in settlements occasionally ripping out a Novgorod stack, and then retreating, and don't want to raid in case I get surprised by a Kazak stack. =/

**spur390** · December 22, 2009, 02:53 PM

By the way things are going you may be able to beat me to Jerusalem anyways. Turns 53 and before were ok; I was close to running out of cash and Novgrod won't accept peace no matter how hard I kick their butt. But a crusade was called on Vilinus, and this is 6.2 RR/RC med/hard. OH GOD MAKE IT STOP AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Have you been able to pull off any ambushes? No matter how hard I try they just ignore my ambushers, though they are right on the side of the road, with their area of control overlapping their path.