Question about Dread

[Deedlit]

I like my elves to have none if it. But after every battle im getting it how? So what adds to a Genera;s dread bar? Why is it if a sack a orc city or kill all my orc prisoners my general gets like 4 dread? But it seems no matter what i do im generals are always getting dread, and not respect from there actions. is this a Bug? or somthing.

I kill, Sack, etc

Mordor
Harard
Rhun
Isengard
Orcs of the Mist

I let live, Free

Gondor
Rohan
Dale
Silvan elves
High elves (Im playing high elves)
Dwarfs

[Xelathur]

Naruto AND Sailor Moon!? Oh no..

Well, what happens if you ransom every prisoner or let them live, do you still get dread?

[Ellin Athinaios]

Think of it as if it means your general is dreaded by Orcs. Which is cool actually.

[Xelathur]

Think of it as if it means your general is dreaded by Orcs. Which is cool actually.

That's true. But the game treats dread equally, so men of the west will be dreaded aswell.

[Maca]

Well, some feared Galadrial. It's not all bad.

[Incan]

didnt they make it so if you are say elves or men that you can execute orcs and such and get respect

[FriendoftheDork]

didnt they make it so if you are say elves or men that you can execute orcs and such and get respect

Only in RR/RC. And you don't get respect by executing orcs, but by releasing humans, fighting honorably and having low taxes.

In fact, In RR/RC it's almost hard to get a decent dread score if you fight the correct enemies.

[Seleukos_I.]

didnt they make it so if you are say elves or men that you can execute orcs and such and get respect

You don't get bad reputation if you sack cities and execute your enemies.

[Schweizergarde]

There's conditional + command, such as "+1 command when fighting Mordor." Is it possible to do something similar with Chivalry/Dread? (I doubt it)

[Deedlit]

i dont understand the system at all

[Seleukos_I.]

What's so difficult about it?
You increase dread by:
- killing prisoners
- sacking cities
- high taxes
You increase chivalry by:
- releasing prisoners
- occupying cities
- low taxes

[FriendoftheDork]

What's so difficult about it?
You increase dread by:
- killing prisoners
- sacking cities
- high taxes
You increase chivalry by:
- releasing prisoners
- occupying cities
- low taxes

In vanilla, yes. Maybe even vanilla TATW. Not so clear cut in RR/RC though.

Also there are some factors you did not mention:

Dread increase:
-Killing x men with your general (chance of dread, could be as many as 5 IIRC).
-Not ransoming your men
-Exterminatig cities
-Random disloyalty traits
-Invader traits (which often gives chivalry as well because it did with Crusades)


Chivalry Increase:
-Killing x men with your general (same as dread, and pretty much the same triggers)
-Joining Invasions (fair ruler traits)
-Building education facilities (churches etc,)
-Building/staying in castles with Jousting buildings

These are what i recall atm, might be even more triggers I did not mention. Chivarly/Dread is not clear cut even in M2TW, and even less in (some) versions of TATW.

The way I think Chiv/Dread was to be handled in vanilla TA`TW is a redifinition.

Respect comes from honorable fighting and thus can be gained by even Nazguls.
Fear comes from being awesome in combat and terrible in retribution and thus can apply even to guys like Elrond. Thus both could fit into TA lore fairly well, Tolkien often described the forces of good as "terrible in their might" etc., although names of traits such as "merciless mauler" would probably be alot better for the evils.

This way it also allows players to chose between the strategic values of Respect/Fear, and not have to choose one because of Lore.

Drawbacks are of course the same as in vanilla M2TW, that properly RPed you'd want both Respect AND Fear, which of course cancel eachother out making the traits useless. Thus strategically, you should always cultivate one or the other in your generals, something which can be hard.

In my Rohan game I have decent chivalry with almost all generals, gained by low taxes mostly. This allows more growth which is often vital in this game with so many small castles and towns, although cities like Edoras go high taxes all the time.

[Withwnar]

decent chivalry (respect) ...allows more (population) growth

This is the main point of the whole respect/dread deal for me. Dread helps you win battles but frankly I don't really need it for most battles, unless seriously outnumbered. As Elves that is.

What I do need (want) are some generals who will provide a serious boost to population growth, particularly in key strategic castles that I have captured. That means having access to the higher-level units sooner, closer to the front line. Sometimes you need a high Respect general just to get a positive pop growth; especially in castles which have no tax rate adjustment and few pop-growth-enhancing buildings.

But of course not all generals need high Respect. What you say, FriendoftheDork, is very true: choose a path for a general and stick to it.

[Seleukos_I.]

But dread reduces corruption which is very good too.

[Evan MF]

I think it is quite lore accurate, because we have evidence in the Hobbit that Orcs/Goblins heavily feared/ dreaded objects of
Elves highly, e.g. The elven swords that Gandalf, Bilbo and the Dwarves find in the Trolls' stores. And I should think an Elf in its self would be more dreadful to them that one of their weapons...

My theory...

Evan

[hospitaller13]

i find chiveraly hard to obtain why, even if u do release prisoners u can get dread traits from just winning the battle, why would u let orcs go anyway then u just have to fight them again

u should get respect for excuting orcs and sacking evil cities and dread for betraying good factions

[FriendoftheDork]

Withwar i suggest you assign some generals in small towns (not castles) and always keep taxes there low, they will steadily gain chivalry, which of course will help grow the settlement to city size as well. Once they have a good 5-7 chivalry they can be moved to one of your more important castles or cities you want to upgrade walls.

Seleukos: Are you sure? I know Law reduces corruption but I have seen no sign of pure dread generals to do so. Some dread traits also provide law bonuses though.

[Tuatha Mordred]

Tired of not knowing how stuff works under the hood? Want more information on how to cultivate Chivalry generals for growing cities and Dread generals for battles? Dive into the EDCT. That has helped a ton for me.

For those not in the know, EDCT is short for a file in the "[Game Folder]/mods/Third Age/data" folder called "export_descr_character_traits.txt". It's the one file responsible for all things related to character traits. Learn to interprete that file; it's really not all that hard, especially if you use an editor like Notepad++.

What others have said is indeed accurate; to gain Chivalry, release prisoners, occupy versus sacking/exterminating cities and govern Low Tax cities. The EDCT will tell you that governors in cities with Low Taxes start to have a chance to gain in Chivalry after 3 turns being inside a particular region. You can gain as high as five ranks in this particular trait line, and each rank is harder to get than the previous. Releasing prisoners gains you ranks in a different trait line which has a maximum rank of 4.

That is to say... if you were to take a 0-Chiv general and fight battles while always releasing prisoners, you will gain all 4 ranks of that release-prisoners trait line - each rank giving 1 Chiv. Then stick him into a city with Low Taxes for a number of turns (~20), he will stand a chance to gain all 5 ranks in the governing trait line - each rank again giving 1 Chiv. Just from these two trait lines alone gives you 9 Chiv points.

I cannot begin to express how empowering this ability is. Once you know how to interprete the ED files, everything opens up to you. And this applies to not just Third Age mods (I first learned the EDCT via Stainless Steel).

PS: Sorry for the necropost. I got to this thread via a link given by another recent thread.

[Beregond]

there was a very good guide of how to get useful traits etc

yep, here it is

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=386432

[gakhongten]

but generals with high dread will have less bodyguards