Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 104

Thread: Taliban offer for peace rejected

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Indefinitely Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    21,467

    Default Taliban offer for peace rejected

    US Silent About Taliban Guarantee Offer on al-Qaeda
    by Gareth Porter, December 16, 2009
    Email This | Print This | Share This | Comment | Antiwar Forum

    The Barack Obama administration is refusing to acknowledge an offer by the leadership of the Taliban in early December to give "legal guarantees" that it will not allow Afghanistan to be used for attacks on other countries.
    The administration’s silence on the offer, despite a public statement by Secretary of State Hillary Clinton expressing skepticism about any Taliban offer to separate itself from al-Qaeda, effectively leaves the door open to negotiating a deal with the Taliban based on such a proposal.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    The Taliban, however, has chosen to interpret the Obama administration’s position as one of rejection of its offer.
    The Taliban offer, included in a statement dated Dec. 4 and e-mailed to news organizations the following day, said the organization has "no agenda of meddling in the internal affairs of other countries and is ready to give legal guarantees if foreign forces withdraw from Afghanistan."
    The statement did not mention al-Qaeda by name or elaborate on what was meant by "legal guarantees" against such "meddling," but it was an obvious response to past U.S. insistence that the U.S. war in Afghanistan is necessary to prevent al-Qaeda from having a safe haven in Afghanistan once again.
    It suggested that the Taliban is interested in negotiating an agreement with the United States involving a public Taliban renunciation of ties with al-Qaeda, along with some undefined arrangements to enforce a ban on al-Qaeda’s presence in Afghanistan in return for a commitment to a timetable for withdrawal of foreign troops from the country.
    Despite repeated queries by IPS to State Department spokesman P. J. Crowley and the National Security Council’s press office over the past week about whether either Secretary Clinton or President Obama had been informed about the Taliban offer, neither office has responded to the question.
    Anand Gopal of the Wall Street Journal, whose Dec. 5 story on the Taliban message was the only one to report that initiative, asked a U.S. official earlier that day about the offer to provide "legal guarantees."
    The official, who had not been aware of the Taliban offer, responded with what was evidently previously prepared policy guidance casting doubt on the willingness of the Taliban to give up its ties with al-Qaeda. "This is the same group that refused to give up bin Laden, even though they could have saved their country from war," said the official. "They wouldn’t break with terrorists then, so why would we take them seriously now?"
    The following day, asked by ABC News This Week host George Stephanopoulos about possible negotiations with "high level" Taliban leaders, Clinton said, "We don’t know yet."
    But then she made the same argument the unnamed U.S. official had made to Gopal on Saturday. "[W]e asked Mullah Omar to give up bin Laden before he went into Afghanistan after 9/11," Clinton said, "and he wouldn’t do it. I don’t know why we think he would have changed by now."
    In the same ABC interview, Defense Secretary Robert Gates suggested that the Taliban would not be willing to negotiate on U.S. terms until after their "momentum" had been stopped.
    "I think that the likelihood of the leadership of the Taliban, or senior leaders, being willing to accept the conditions Secretary Clinton just talked about," Gates said, "depends in the first instance on reversing their momentum right now, and putting them in a position where they suddenly begin to realize that they’re likely to lose."
    In a statement issued two days after the Clinton-Gates appearance on ABC, the Taliban leadership, which now calls itself "mujahedin," posted another statement saying that what it called its "proposal" had been rejected by the United States.
    The statement said, in part, "Washington turns down the constructive proposal of the leadership of mujahedin," and repeated its pledge to "ensure that the next government of the mujahedin will not meddle in the internal affairs of other countries including the neighbors if the foreign troops pull out of Afghanistan."
    The fact that both the State Department and the NSC are now maintaining silence on the offer rather than repeating the Clinton-Gates expression of skepticism strongly suggests that the White House does not want to close the door publicly to negotiations with the Taliban linking troop withdrawal to renunciation of ties with al-Qaeda, among other issues.
    Last month, an even more explicit link between U.S. troop withdrawal and a severing by the Taliban of its ties with al-Qaeda was made by a U.S. diplomat in Kabul.
    In an article published Nov. 11, Philadelphia Inquirer columnist Trudy Rubin, who was then visiting Kabul, quoted an unnamed U.S. official as saying, "If the Taliban made clear to us that they have broken with al-Qaeda and that their own objectives were nonviolent and political – however abhorrent to us – we wouldn’t be keeping 68,000-plus troops here."
    That statement reflected an obvious willingness to entertain a negotiated settlement under which U.S. troops would be withdrawn and the Taliban would break with al-Qaeda.
    A significant faction within the Obama administration has sought to portray those who suggest that the Taliban might part ways with al-Qaeda as deliberately deceiving the West.
    Bruce Riedel of the Brookings Institution, who headed the administration’s policy review of Afghanistan and Pakistan last spring, recently said, "A lot of smoke is being thrown up to confuse people."
    But even the hard-liner Riedel concedes that the Pakistani Taliban’s attacks on the Pakistani military and Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate (ISI) threaten the close relationship between the Afghan Taliban and ISI. The Pakistani Taliban continue to be closely allied with al-Qaeda.
    The Taliban began indicating it openness to negotiations with the United States and NATO in September 2007. But it began to hint publicly at its willingness to separate itself from al-Qaeda in return for a troop withdrawal only three months ago.
    Taliban leader Mullah Omar’s message for Eid al-Fitr in mid-September assured "all countries" that a Taliban state "will not extend its hand to jeopardize others, as it itself does not allow others to jeopardize us. … Our goal is to gain independence of the country and establish a just Islamic system there."
    But the insurgent leadership has also emphasized that negotiations will depend on the U.S. willingness to withdraw troops. In anticipation of Obama’s announcement of a new U.S. troop surge in Afghanistan, Mullah Omar issued a 3,000-word statement Nov. 25, which said, "The people of Afghanistan will not agree to negotiations which prolongs and legitimizes the invader’s military presence in our beloved country."
    "The invading Americans want mujahedin to surrender under the pretext of negotiation," it said.
    That implied that the Taliban would negotiate if the U.S. did not insist on the acceptance of a U.S. military presence in the country.
    The day after the Taliban proposal to Washington, Afghan President Hamid Karzai made a public plea to the United States to engage in direct negotiations with the Taliban leadership.
    In an interview with CNN’s Christiane Amanpour, Karzai said there is an "urgent need" for negotiations with the Taliban and made it clear that the Obama administration had opposed such talks.
    Karzai did not say explicitly that he wanted the United States to be at the table for such talks, but he said, "Alone, we can’t do it."

    (Inter Press Service)
    source: http://original.antiwar.com/porter/2...r-on-al-qaeda/

    Long quoted articles, multiple videos, and large pictures should be posted in spoilers. -- VP

    y'know it's funny; if it's alright for the US command in afghanistan to hire certain taliban as security contractors for supply convoys, why is it so hard to accept an offer by the taliban to guarantee that a-stan will not be used as a platform for further attacks against the west?

    couple this with the fact this clearly shows the taliban and al-quaeda are not one and the same-contrary to what our political leaders would have us believe.
    Last edited by Viking Prince; December 17, 2009 at 01:01 AM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Taliban offer for peace rejected

    Yes surely the Taliban great people of honor and dignity will keep their word and guarantees once all of our troops are gone....


  3. #3
    Indefinitely Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    21,467

    Default Re: Taliban offer for peace rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by king spartacus View Post
    Yes surely the Taliban great people of honor and dignity will keep their word and guarantees once all of our troops are gone....
    i hazard a guess honour and dignity play a big part in tribal cultures of central asia
    if the obama admin. was smart, they'd be working on this and finding ways to divide the taliban and al-quaeda and even get them fighting each other

  4. #4

    Default Re: Taliban offer for peace rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    i hazard a guess honour and dignity play a big part in tribal cultures of central asia
    I was reading a book about the Great Game in Central Asia, during the 19th century, it was full of treachery by the "natives", leaders would make grandiose promises and break them at a whim, they were portrayed as the antithesis of trustworthiness, now I know that that is miles off, but I believe that traditions such as those in a not-so-advanced society such as Afghanistan's would stay despite the century or so seperating them.

    I would not be so quick to trust them, they are extremists and in a society like that I think that being seen as stopping "decent, god fearing Islamists" on the pretext that they have a deal with the Great Satan would not be well seen and if it did happen then there would be a power shift, I think that it would be as simple as that.

    Also you have to consider what would happen to the people left behind, civilians who co-operated with the government and the U.S, teachers, and others, really anyone who benefited from the current regime or who supports it will be dealt with severely, and I don't want to see any massacre of "loyalists" like what happened in Algeria in 1962 after the French left.
    Under the patronage of Noble Savage

    Post Tenebras Lux
    European liberal, free trade and civil liberties FTW.
    Attractive, by everyones standards.

    Quote Originally Posted by Poet View Post
    Good post Amagi +rep

  5. #5

    Default Re: Taliban offer for peace rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by king spartacus View Post
    Yes surely the Taliban great people of honor and dignity will keep their word and guarantees once all of our troops are gone....
    *cough* Taliban *cough* N. Viet Nam *cough*
    "oooh a gypsy wind is blowing warm tonight, sky is starlit and the time is right. Now you're telling me you have to go...before you do there's something you should know." - Bob Seger

    Freedom is the distance between church and state.

  6. #6
    Tiberios's Avatar Le Paysan Soleil
    Patrician Moderator Emeritus

    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Cimbria
    Posts
    12,702

    Default Re: Taliban offer for peace rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by king spartacus View Post
    Yes surely the Taliban great people of honor and dignity will keep their word and guarantees once all of our troops are gone....
    Exactly my thoughts. The Taliban are so honorable

  7. #7
    Babur's Avatar ز آفتاب درخشان ستاره می
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Agra,Hindustan
    Posts
    15,405

    Default Re: Taliban offer for peace rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralle18 View Post
    Exactly my thoughts. The Taliban are so honorable
    yet they kill themselves over the smallest disagreements

    but meh they have served in our armies for centuries.
    Under the patronage of Gertrudius!

  8. #8
    Tiberios's Avatar Le Paysan Soleil
    Patrician Moderator Emeritus

    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Cimbria
    Posts
    12,702

    Default Re: Taliban offer for peace rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by Babur View Post
    yet they kill themselves over the smallest disagreements

    but meh they have served in our armies for centuries.
    Well I don't value their honor one bit.

  9. #9
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Right behind you starring over your shoulder.
    Posts
    31,638

    Default Re: Taliban offer for peace rejected

    Yea, they also signed a peace treaty in 2004 in Pakistan saying they would lay down their arms and not fight in Afghanistan in Pakistan...and did the same in 2006...

    They are not the most reliable group.
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

  10. #10
    Dr Zoidberg's Avatar A Medical Corporation
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    5,155

    Default Re: Taliban offer for peace rejected

    The only peace treaty worthwhile having with the Taliban is one where they're in pieces.
    Young lady, I am an expert on humans. Now pick a mouth, open it and say "brglgrglgrrr"!

  11. #11

    Default Re: Taliban offer for peace rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Zoidberg View Post
    The only peace treaty worthwhile having with the Taliban is one where they're in pieces.
    "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Dr Zoidberg again."

    It would make everything we've done in Afghanistan the past 8 years worth nothing if we agreed to peace with the Taliban and say "okay, forget this democracy we're setting up here for the good of the people, just take it over into a terrorist dictatorship again... as long as you don't attack us". Even if they held their word and never bothered us again (haha, sure), it would be the most selfish and irresponsible decision imaginable by us, the Americans.

    The Taliban is as much our enemy as al Qaeda. There won't be any peace until the Taliban is gone.

    If they made a peace deal - that would allow the country to stabilise unlike right now.
    The country to stabilize under Taliban rule, you mean? Essentially returning it to the exact same position it was in before the US invasion -- a theocratic terrorist dictatorship?

    Patron of Felixion, Ulyaoth, Reidy, Ran Taro and Darth Red
    Co-Founder of the House of Caesars


  12. #12
    mrmouth's Avatar flaxen haired argonaut
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    10,741

    Default Re: Taliban offer for peace rejected

    We have actually always been open to negotiating with some Taliban elements, and we have. But to think that an offer like this, where we simply leave on good faith should have ever been considered, is just silly.
    The fascists of the future will be called anti-fascists
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity

  13. #13

    Default Re: Taliban offer for peace rejected

    The Taliban is as much our enemy as al Qaeda. There won't be any peace until the Taliban is gone.
    isn’t the Taliban pretty much the people of Afghanistan? We wont ever get rid of them, they may disband at best [or appear to], only to reform under another regime.

    This is why we have to talk to them, we don’t have to agree, but any dialogue is something to work with, whereas no dialogue wont help the situation at all.
    Formerly quetzalcoatl. Proud leader of STW3 and member of the RTR, FATW and QNS teams.

  14. #14
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Right behind you starring over your shoulder.
    Posts
    31,638

    Default Re: Taliban offer for peace rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzalcoatl View Post
    isn’t the Taliban pretty much the people of Afghanistan? We wont ever get rid of them, they may disband at best [or appear to], only to reform under another regime.

    This is why we have to talk to them, we don’t have to agree, but any dialogue is something to work with, whereas no dialogue wont help the situation at all.
    No the Taliban are a faction. A rather unpopular one.

    What we call the Taliban are a mix of Taliban and tribal rebels that have temporarily aligned against Karzai. Our best bet is to bring over the tribal rebels like we did in Iraq.
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

  15. #15
    Praefectus
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    in my mother's basement, on disability.
    Posts
    6,598

    Default Re: Taliban offer for peace rejected

    why is it so hard to accept an offer by the taliban to guarantee that a-stan will not be used as a platform for further attacks against the west?
    So if they break their word to you, what are you going to do, sue them?

    The only way to make it legally binding on the Taliban, would get them to reach a treaty with Saudi Arabia or Kuwait that required them to do certain things in favour of the US, but the agreement is between the Taliban and the Saudis, or Kuwaitis, or whomever from the Middle East. Infidels and infidel regimes do not have legal personality, ie, do not exist legally in sharia law. So they would be free to agree to anything with the USA and break it. If however, they were made to reach a treaty with Saudi Arabia, they are at least *legally* not meant to break it because its between muslims.

    Still doesn't mean they wouldn't however, but your chances would be better. And then, how does one define who is in the Taliban and who is out. If any terrorism took place, the Taliban would just say that rogue elements beyond their control were to blame, and it would be business as usual.

    I wish I had an M4 carbine
    Is it possible for you to pay for your own M4 carbine? We might be able to have a little TW fund raiser.
    Last edited by Simon Cashmere; December 18, 2009 at 02:51 AM.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Taliban offer for peace rejected

    Can't really expect anything other than such naivety from the Anti War Forum!

    In the mean-time, the Taliban will continue to work operationally with the Shadow Army.
    قرطاج يجب ان تدمر

  17. #17
    Kjertesvein's Avatar Remember to smile
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Miðaldir
    Posts
    6,679
    Tournaments Joined
    1
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Taliban offer for peace rejected

    Should it happend -- it would not suprise me if they kept their words. [1]

    ~Wille
    Thorolf was thus armed. Then Thorolf became so furious that he cast his shield on his back, and, grasping his halberd with both hands, bounded forward dealing cut and thrust on either side. Men sprang away from him both ways, but he slew many. Thus he cleared the way forward to earl Hring's standard, and then nothing could stop him. He slew the man who bore the earl's standard, and cut down the standard-pole. After that he lunged with his halberd at the earl's breast, driving it right through mail and body, so that it came out at the shoulders; and he lifted him up on the halberd over his head, and planted the butt-end in the ground. There on the weapon the earl breathed out his life in sight of all, both friends and foes. [...] 53, Egil's Saga
    I must tell you here of some amusing tricks the Comte d'Eu played on us. I had made a sort of house for myself in which my knights and I used to eat, sitting so as to get the light from the door, which, as it happened, faced the Comte d'Eu's quarters. The count, who was a very ingenious fellow, had rigged up a miniature ballistic machine with which he could throw stones into my tent. He would watch us as we were having our meal, adjust his machine to suit the length of our table, and then let fly at us, breaking our pots and glasses.
    - The pranks played on the knight Jean de Joinville, 1249, 7th crusade.













    http://imgur.com/a/DMm19
    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    This is the only forum I visit with any sort of frequency and I'm glad it has provided a home for RTR since its own forum went down in 2007. Hopefully my donation along with others from TWC users will help get the site back to its speedy heyday, which will certainly aid us in our endeavor to produce a full conversion mod Rome2.

  18. #18
    MathiasOfAthens's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Stockholm, Sverige
    Posts
    22,877

    Default Re: Taliban offer for peace rejected

    I think the biggest thing to keep in mind here is that the Taliban would not be accepted back in Afganistan as legitimate rulers. We already set up another regime and to sign the treaty offered would effectively replace one regime for another, I dont see how that would be beneficial, let alone reverse all the great civil achievements in the last 8 years.

  19. #19
    Comes Domesticorum
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Athenai
    Posts
    33,211

    Default Re: Taliban offer for peace rejected

    There can be no peace with the Taliban! Men of stone, and iron, and lies! There can be only war!


    (no, seriously, who accepts peace terms from the Taliban??)

  20. #20
    MathiasOfAthens's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Stockholm, Sverige
    Posts
    22,877

    Default Re: Taliban offer for peace rejected

    Lol, besides Pakistan. Basically their peace is "we will stop talking to Osama if you let us back into A-Stan so we can force women to cover up and blah blah blah".

Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •