Snouts in the trough, pairt twa

[Lance-Corporal Jones]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-to-86000.html

Members of the European Parliament will benefit from a 3.7 per cent wage increase that will boost their earnings to a third more than a Westminster MP's wage.
Eurocrats, including MEPs and their staff, will get the pay rise despite negative or near zero rates of inflation across Europe, soaring unemployment, falling wages and austerity measures in most national public sectors.

The British government, along with those in Germany and Poland, is trying to block the deal which is seen as unacceptable at a time when most Europeans are hit by the worst recession in over 70 years.
But an internal parliament document, seen by The Daily Telegraph, has warned national governments, represented in the Council of the EU, that they have no legal power to block the wage rise.
"The Council has no leeway to determine itself how European civil service remuneration should be adjusted since it is required to apply the law," the document stated.
The authorities have threatened that legal action by MEPs, staff and officials, could swamp EU institutions in expensive litigation if the rise is blocked.
"Dealing these complaints and legal action would force administrations to draw on scarce resources which can be better used on implementation of the Lisbon Treaty," said the document.
Pay rises for all EU staff are set by a legally binding indexed calculation based on civil service pay averages in the eight wealthiest European countries and using a special cost of living index for Brussels.
Under new Brussels pay structures, which came into force this year, the wages of MEPs are no longer lined to the earnings of national MPs but are automatically set at 38.5 per cent of the salary of EU judges, who are eligible for the 3.7 per cent rise.
British MEPs claim to be embarrassed at taking the extra money at a time when their voters are feeling the pinch but argue that the matter is out of their hands.
Glenis Willmott, leader of Labour in the European Parliament, said: "MEPs are not involved in the current negotiations and it is inappropriate for MEPs to be directly involved in the salary negotiations of the staff at the European institutions," she said. Conservative and Liberal Democrat MEPs declined to comment.
EU officials and MEPs, who already pay reduced taxes are expecting to get the increase, with six months paid retrospectively, in time to celebrate the New Year.
Meanwhile, average pay rises in Britain have fallen to one per cent, the lowest increase on record, as almost half of British firms have frozen their employees' pay.
EU ambassadors meet on Wednesday to discuss the pay deal amid concerns that refusing to sign off the rise will be defeated by European judges, beneficiaries of the wage increase.
Sources close to negotiations told The Daily Telegraph that the only option may be to phase the increase in over two years, by using a "crisis levy" to shave off 1.7 per cent off the rise until 2011.
National governments will then seek a review of the EU salary system but, as one diplomat noted, any reform must be first be agreed by MEPs.

This is probably the most irresponsible, greedy, self-serving, egocentric and antisolidary EU action of the latest times.

Whereas, doubtless, some (cough) who claim that it is best to allow the Eurocrats to be as corrupt as they want, because "The EU is overall beneficial", the above action will please none other than those recieving said salaries.

Of course, we already know that the MEPs -- in a very strange interpretation of democracy -- have voted for their own pay rise. The results are, of course, predictable!



So here we have two worlds -- the Euroworld and the real world.

In the real world, salaries are being slashed or frozen, the economy is in trouble and we're all tightening our belts; half of all British firms have frozen their employees' salaries, and the average salary has dropped by 1%.

In the Euroworld, however, all is great for a distant, self-serving "elite" in Brussels -- never mind the economy being in shambles, and the ECB preaching draconian measures of austerity, it's "do as we say, not as we do" as the snouts dig ever deeper into the trough.

It is a disgrace that this shameless political behaviour should be so widespread and open; and it is an even bigger disgrace that some EU-supporters with a distorted moral compass should think that this is acceptable in the name of a "greater good".

Eurosceptics and Europhiles must unanimously condemn the outrageous and arrogant behaviours of the Brussels mafia.

[removeduser_487563287433]

It's because European politicians are used to so much more material benefit that it seems excessive to British tastes. I know there's a lot of kerfuffle in the UK about expenses and MP's salaries (typically by people who don't know what they're on about) but check out the salary of the French counterparts and then take some time to consider. I'd advise you to also check out their expenses, except those are completely secret from the public.

[Lance-Corporal Jones]

It's because European politicians are used to so much more material benefit that it seems excessive to British tastes. I know there's a lot of kerfuffle in the UK about expenses and MP's salaries (typically by people who don't know what they're on about) but check out the salary of the French counterparts and then take some time to consider. I'd advise you to also check out their expenses, except those are completely secret from the public.

Well yes quite, but even so, it's a bit rich for them to award themselves a raise whilst there is a Europe-wide trend for wages to be frozen or slashed, isn't it?

[Treize]

So it really is a retirement plan for senior politician, anything new?

[Lance-Corporal Jones]

So it really is a retiremet plan for senior politician, anything new?

Well yes, it seems as if the strike worked, eh? The Eurocrats have made it clear they're "entitled" to more than their national colleagues.

Hot from the European Parliament:

"Adjustment to Parliament's 2010 budget
following the entry into force of the Lisbon Treaty.
The Bureau of the EP has decided the reinforcement
of the committee's secretariats by the creation of 75 additional posts; an
extra 75 temporary posts for the political groups and the reinforcement of
personal assistance to members of an additional 1,500 € per month per
Member".

Hallelujah, long live the financial crisis!

[The Devil's Sergeant]

It seems very reasonable to me that MEPs, which direct the direct the working of a superstate should earn a great deal more than the elected representatives of a dumpwater province in that state.

[Lance-Corporal Jones]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-pay-rise.html

UPDATE: On top of the abovementioned raise, the MEPs will furthermore award themselves an extra £32,000 per annum each.

[Martin N]

Isnt this the beauty of democracy, the majority will always vote in policies that favour only themselves, this is why the us is not a democracy, the founding fathers hated democracy, majority rule is such a pain in the ass, if 51% said all right handed should be executed, it would be carried out, if 51% said the other 49% should have there paychecks given to the state, it would be carried out, if 51% said the other 49% should be conscripted to go to war it would be carried out, whereas in a Republic, the other 49% would be protected with representation in government and under rule of law in the constitution or bill of rights.

There spreading the wealth rather niceley though, and its been what - 1 month since lisbon ?

It is ashame though that when people are losing there jobs, and cant afford to pay for rent or groceries, your politicians are putting there bank accounts infront of your citizens wellbeings, and then you have them new taxes your president was talking about, oh boy what a joy it will be to be a eu citizen in the future, if they tried to do that over here it would be grab your rifle time, thats why a socialist state needs the populace unarmed.

[Denny Crane!]

The timing of this is basically just a slap in the face and declaring they don't give a damn what we think so there.

I posted this on another site, if this was a TV show chuck in a few jokes it would be an extremely dark comedy. LCJ - if you look at it like that it isn't any less serious but it gives you a chuckle seeing what new ridiculous or obscene thing they propose or do.

[Lance-Corporal Jones]

The timing of this is basically just a slap in the face and declaring they don't give a damn what we think so there.

I posted this on another site, if this was a TV show chuck in a few jokes it would be an extremely dark comedy. LCJ - if you look at it like that it isn't any less serious but it gives you a chuckle seeing what new ridiculous or obscene thing they propose or do.

Well spoken. "slap in the face" just sums it all up -- they feel they're above everything, above the people's wishes, even above the failing economy.

Now this one isn't really related to the subject at hand, but I am Lance-Corporal Jones, after all, so...

[Thorn777]

Well in German politics they keep on raising their own salary's all the time, including this year.

Hurray to vote about your salary, I want that too...

[The Devil's Sergeant]

First thing to ask - is the salary proposed necessary to fill the needs of the MEP? Presumably each MEP has to maintain two homes, one is Brussels and one in the locale he represents. Perhaps travel expense need to taken into account.

At any rate I think it ought to be up to the governing authority of the MEP's home province to decide what its representative is paid.

[Lance-Corporal Jones]

First thing to ask - is the salary proposed necessary to fill the needs of the MEP? Presumably each MEP has to maintain two homes, one is Brussels and one in the locale he represents. Perhaps travel expense need to taken into account.

At any rate I think it ought to be up to the governing authority of the MEP's home province to decide what its representative is paid.

I will gladly answer your question as soon as you stop calling my country a "province".

[Thorn777]

Well @LCJ you have to admit the MEP's pay-rise is only normal considering they got some extra work and responsibility coming along since the installment of Lisbon.

Though I agree its distasteful ATM, they where never good at looking good...

[Lance-Corporal Jones]

Well @LCJ you have to admit the MEP's pay-rise is only normal considering they got some extra work and responsibility coming along since the installment of Lisbon.

Though I agree its distasteful ATM, they where never good at looking good...

Work? We both know that most of them don't even go to the parliament at all!

Furthermore, the extra £32,000 are for hiring staff, right? However, these allowances are given no questions asked.

For example, a primary source for this is the EP Internal Audit published in 2008 on some of these cases of malpractice:



(I'll post the other pages later on if you wish)

Generally, there are three main loopholes which MEPs exploit regularly:

1) The office expenses handout of about £40,000 (in 2008) given no questions asked; in other words, you could not spend a penny on it and pocket the lot (which many do)

2) The staff allowance, £126,000 per annum (2008 figure, to be increased by £32,000) which is often handed out directly to relatives, or used to hire less staff than stipulated

3) The travel allowance; some MEPs have made up to £10,000 per annum by flying low-cost and claiming an allowment for top-price tickets

Extra work? Only those MPs who want to work actually work; do you follow the EP? I do, and the damned place is empty half of the time.

They're there for the money.

Heck, we are even paying £6,000,000 per year for 18 "phantom MEPs" who are recieving their salary and perks but will not start work for 4 years!

Furthermore, MEPs are supposed to be taxed a flat 20% rate directly to the EU, plus national taxes to bring their salary on-par with the representatives of the lower house of that country.

Do you know how many countries do that? 2 out of 27: the UK and Sweden. In other words, MEPs from 25 countries are not paying national taxes.

Representation without taxation? It seems so, as they're not paying taxes like the people they are supposed to represent!

Everybody nowadays is getting their pay frozen or slashed; and, in the meanwhile, these useless drones think they're above the economy, above society, above reality.

Thorn777, as a Europhile, condemn this outrageous shamelesness.

[Thorn777]

No, its actually work for the most of them, and yes, people do what what people do. You cant really expect some sort of council of Saints, but you can expect the vast majority doing their jobs, like they do, or they wouldn't be elected, ergo put forward by their party's.

Of course, some Italian blonde's, British Euro-"septics" never showing up and Bulgarian zillionairs aside...

[Lance-Corporal Jones]

No, its actually work for the most of them, and yes, people do what what people do. You cant really expect some sort of council of Saints, but you can expect the vast majority doing their jobs, like they do, or they wouldn't be elected, hence put forward by their party's.

Of course, some Italian blonde's and Bulgarian gangsters aside...

There you go, attempting to minimize and ignore the fact that the MEPs are already overpaid as they are (due to the various exploitable loopholes) to be getting a raise + more expenses (considering that they already don't expend all of their expenses) in our present financial climate.

But hey, double standards are all the rage among Europhiles lately. Looks like some people like being robbed.

[Thorn777]

There you go, attempting to minimize and ignore the fact that the MEPs are already overpaid as they are (due to the various exploitable loopholes) to be getting a raise + more expenses (considering that they already don't expend all of their expenses) in our present financial climate.

But hey, double standards are all the rage among Europhiles lately. Looks like some people like being robbed.

Its just that I'm used to getting robbed already nationally. Different place, but its the same game...I was not surprised nor outraged if that's what you mean.

Though if these assigned persons actually use the money to fulfill its purpose, which actually most do, I don't see a big issue here. Most of it is held accountable and you cant expect them to live of some basic salary.

So whats next?

[Lance-Corporal Jones]

Its just that I'm used to getting robbed already nationally. Different place, but its the same game...I was not surprised nor outraged if that's what you mean.

Though if these assigned persons actually use the money to fulfill its purpose, which actually most do, I don't see a big issue here. Most of it is held accountable and you cant expect them to live of some basic salary.

So whats next?

OK, so basically I present evidence of massive misspending, a total lack of accountability (for instance, there is zero accountability on the £40,000 office expenses handout -- it's no questions asked) and you just say no.

Well, what can I say? It's typical of you. Next thing you'll claim I'm a jewish templar lizardman from Mars conspiring against the virtuous, beloved Eurocrats.

Seriously, Thorn, the amount of corruption at EU level is unmatched at national level. Last time I checked, it was estimated that each MEP embezzled an average £1,000,000 EACH during his term.

But hey, you'll just say "no" and put a few absurd smileys at the end of your post and feel quite satisfied.

Suit yourself.

[Thorn777]

OK, so basically I present evidence of massive misspending, a total lack of accountability (for instance, there is zero accountability on the £40,000 office expenses handout -- it's no questions asked) and you just say no.

Well, what can I say? It's typical of you. Next thing you'll claim I'm a jewish templar lizardman from Mars conspiring against the virtuous, beloved Eurocrats.

Seriously, Thorn, the amount of corruption at EU level is unmatched at national level. Last time I checked, it was estimated that each MEP embezzled an average £1,000,000 EACH during his term.

But hey, you'll just say "no" and put a few absurd smileys at the end of your post and feel quite satisfied.

Suit yourself.

Sorry but you do nothing but juggling figures and place them in thin air. When hypothetically taking your word, (after enjoying your Charlemagne and EU comic-books conspiracy theory) on the figure of 40.000, then I guess maybe it should be looked into closer. I guess we could agree on that.

BTW that 1.000.000 Pound Stirling figure does make me anxious..linky?