Justified Cheating

[Disco_Stu]

So lets say i'm playing as saaaay Gondor who have in their possession according to the books a palantir... wouldn't it be justifiable to use toggle_fow on a consistant basis? eh eh? just a museing of mine.

[Myshkin]

Dude, if it's good enough for you, why care what the others think about it?

I think it's cheating, but would this change anything for you? Just do it, if you enjoy your game more like this.

[airborne guy]

well if you didnt delete the garrison script then use the toggle_fow to counter mordors cheating with endless stacks, lol

[Disco_Stu]

lol i wasn't saying that i use it too cheat... i do use it from time to time to see the current status of other middle earth empires purely for entertainment purposes, since i find it VERY annoying to negotiate trade map deals... i can NEVER get other empires to accept! but i don't use it to predict enemy moves on MY front lines.

I was simply using this thread to suggest ideas for role-play.

I.e. Morodor has Barad-dur and the eye of sauron which in the books could see just about anything it focused its gaze on... sorta like the viewing screen we get in-game. and the palantir's alowed the user to see the world at the expense of revealing themselves to Sauron.

[ackrite26]

I.e. Morodor has Barad-dur and the eye of sauron which in the books could see just about anything it focused its gaze on... sorta like the viewing screen we get in-game. and the palantir's alowed the user to see the world at the expense of revealing themselves to Sauron.

No, where does it say the Palantir is like a Radar?

Read about what the Palantiri and also Saurons eye could actually do. Nothing like toggle_fow

[Alphonse]

...and the eye of sauron which in the books could see just about anything it focused its gaze on...

I am pretty sure that if it could focus its gaze on something he can probibly already see it xD

[Momus]

the only justified cheating I can think of is if you have just fought an epic battle and won a very significant and important victory and then....oh . CTD. Then you start up again and then auto_win. That is the only time I will use any other cheat than toggle_fow (I am quite nosey and like to see how ppl are getting on every so often )

[airborne guy]

auto_win, are you serious. I havent heard if that one yet.

[Momus]

yeah, auto_win attacker
or auto_win defender depending on your needs

[OSDEA7]

auto_win, are you serious. I havent heard if that one yet.

I do the same thing if my game crashes after a battle win to.And it does every so often.

(auto_win attacker)(auto_win defender)

Sometimes when the AI gets wacky with it countless stacks of troops and i have a hard time even keeping or producing a couple of stacks i use auto win to clean them out a little.I know its a cheat but the game is not fairly balanced yet either.Especially playing as Elves.

I cheat a little the first campaign anyway after each new update to see how the balances are working.Pretty much to see what i am up against.If it looks like i can have a slight chance of victory i will play the campaign straight up.But so far balancing does not seem ready yet.

[Tropical Bob]

Especially since Denethor was pretty much shown by Sauron all the negative stuff. Sure you'd know there would be an army coming, but you'd know it's large beyond hope, and you can't win, and the Witch-King of -You-Up is leading it, and he is pissed off.

Either cheat, or don't. Your justification is whether or not you feel like it.

[Disco_Stu]

Jeeze I feel like i'm getting waaay more hostility than i expected... it was a simple museing that i had good god

[Withwnar]

Jeeze I feel like i'm getting waaay more hostility than i expected... it was a simple museing that i had good god

Yep... welcome to the forums.

There was a good thread some time back on "how do you cheat?". Interesting reading, especially some of the justifications and/or self-loathing.

[Athalwulf]

Jeeze I feel like i'm getting waaay more hostility than i expected... it was a simple museing that i had good god

I cheat all the time. I use money cheats, unit cheats, toggle_fow, and remove_ancillary in every campaign. I don't care if people say it's wrong to use cheats, I'm not playing the game for their enjoyment.

[Evan MF]

I cheat all the time. I use money cheats, unit cheats, toggle_fow, and remove_ancillary in every campaign. I don't care if people say it's wrong to use cheats, I'm not playing the game for their enjoyment.

That's the key son. Don't let lore worms and tacticians rape you. Play for enjoyment and enjoyment only.

Evan

[Myshkin]

I did tell you mate. If you like it, why do you care about what the others say? Just do it. The moment it is justified in your mind, it's fine.

As for me, I did tell you it's cheating, but you shouldn't give a damn about it.

Happy radar spotting!

[Myshkin]

Well talking about interesting reading. This article is recommended to all, who one way or another play to win.

Playing to Win

At least makes very interesting reading.

[Achilla]

Well talking about interesting reading. This article is recommended to all, who one way or another play to win.

Playing to Win

At least makes very interesting reading.

I think it's more readable on it's very own author's site and not in a 'tl;dr' giga-post fashion.

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw

Originally it was a series of articles, later Sirlin decided to make a book out of it. It can be viewed for free on his site or any other sites, provided the source is listed and content is not changed.

NOTE: 'Playing to win' is addressed mainly to competitive people who like playing with others in online multiplayer or split-screen fashion, but certainly reading it will seed out the ignorance of other players who shout far and wide that 'playing to win is not playing at all' ...

Playing and Role-playing are two different things. With uncompetitive AI and rather uncomplicated gameplay, M2TW serves much better purpose for 'it's my game, I win no matter what so I need to add some role-playing spice to the sausage for my own enjoyment' than 'I need to play like my life depended on it, so after hard-e struggle I will defeat my bloody foes or teach them a lesson or two before my legacy vanishes in the sands of time'.

The problem here is misconception, many people will say that they play their game (no matter whether they act like a 'scrub', i.e. give AI more than enough reasons on purpose to crush the human player or simply don't give all to the game they could give), while in reality they don't.

Aim of the game is winning it, purpose of game industry is enjoyment. The problem is with correctly introducing a game with many customized difficulty layers which work and matter, so many different player needs can be addressed. M2TW, yet again, doesn't necessarily address these difficulty layers, because game might become more frustrating or stupid due to reckless AI, but the AI itself rarely does anything smart to secure itself a game or obliterate the human player. And those who wanted to use console cheats are still free to do so, those who played 'bad' on purpose are free to play like that as well.

Just one note - when playing versus other players, even if you want to teach them something, don't play bad on purpose because you will only strengthen their bad gaming habits and give them satisfaction, but certainly not teach them to improve and learn on their own and gain satisfaction from progress.

Unfortunately for M2TW yet again, I'm yet to not beat 99% of my games without cheating no matter the faction I play and difficulty I have chosen.

Conclusion is, nothing is cheating even if it is an exploit of the AI stupidity or core game's fault as long as it's not a 'nuclear red button' which wins you a game. Personally I don't use console cheats since I don't view them as gameplay part of the game but tool for the game and mod designers, which is not really playing.

That's the key son. Don't let lore worms and tacticians rape you. Play for enjoyment and enjoyment only.

Evan

I think you will find this one interesting - http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playi...-survivor.html

[ackrite26]

I was not having a go, just stating that the Palantir and Saurons Eye were not at all like toggle_fow

I justify using give_ancillary AssassinCatcher to my Elven generals as the elves have no assassins of their own to counter other factions.

[Disco_Stu]

I was not having a go, just stating that the Palantir and Saurons Eye were not at all like toggle_fow

I disagree... now what you say IS true for the Palantir's... Sauron could influence the user any way he so choose, cept say Ganadalf or Aragorn.... but i do think "sauron's gaze" is exactly like toggle_fow.... when you use it you can't see the entire map, only what you focus on (exclude the min-map) and as of my understanding this is what the eye could do.