Catholicism

[Banana Jelly]

Alright, we were in school today. And in my AP class United Sates History, we were talking about immagration. Until it said that America didn't 'like' catholics. Why? Because America wasn't Catholic. They were protestants. They thought since the Catholics think that whatever the Pope says is true. "Godsend" words. Rather then listening to the president, they will listen to the Pope. Which isn't 'cool' for American citizens.

So...

My question is,

Since Popes are regularly elected and cycled by the college of cardinal's, which are some regular religious people. How are everything the Pope say 'godsend word's'? After each election when a cardinal becomes pope, are they intertwined with god?

You can see by now, that this is only for Catholics...

[Ciabhán]

It wasn't even so much that Catholics would listen to the Pope over the President as it was that the country was founded by Protestants, the 'aristocracy' of whom were mostly upper/upper middle class English. They felt that the influx of poor, Irish, German, and Eastern European Catholics might undermine them. Not to mention ancient animosities between groups. At the time if you were Catholic the probability was that you were from a nation that had fought quite a few wars, many very recently, with the nation of origin of those in power and those with money. There were many levels of prejudice and reasoning behind the dislike of Catholics. We still have vestiges of it here("Home rule is Rome rule")wherein some Protestants claim to be afraid that Catholics in positions of power will push an agenda given them by the Pope. In all reality it stems more from generations of discord and the fear of 'Papists' is often just a disguise for old prejudices.

A wee bit more on topic: If I remember correctly from childhood the Pope is considered to have a more 'direct pipeline' to God as he is the successor of Peter and as such is infused by the Holy Spirit and guided by the hand of God...blah blah blah...

[Del Valle]

Alright, we were in school today. And in my AP class United Sates History, we were talking about immagration. Until it said that America didn't 'like' catholics. Why? Because America wasn't Catholic. They were protestants. They thought since the Catholics think that whatever the Pope says is true. "Godsend" words. Rather then listening to the president, they will listen to the Pope. Which isn't 'cool' for American citizens.

So...

My question is,

Since Popes are regularly elected and cycled by the college of cardinal's, which are some regular religious people. How are everything the Pope say 'godsend word's'? After each election when a cardinal becomes pope, are they intertwined with god?

You can see by now, that this is only for Catholics...

Think of it this way. A Pope is guaranteed to have spent a lifetime worshiping, studying, and meditating on God. He is then acknowledged by a council of his peers to be the one with the most faith and distinctions to his name. I can't honestly think of a person who has greater "credentials", for lack of a better word, in matters of spirit. A spiritual explanation would be that the Pope is the heir of Saint Peter, perhaps the closest of the Apostles to Jesus. I don't believe in Papal infallibility (so maybe I'm not really a Catholic), as he is only a man and the only perfect human being there ever was Jesus. But, due to his office and the qualities needed to gain it, I put great faith in the teachings he says.

[Banana Jelly]

But, even though a pope maybe the ''heir'' to Apostle Peter, he isn't through his bloodline. Which doesn't actually make him get any 'direct' relationship to god as Peter did.

Am I not right?

[Fiyenyaa]

As far as I understand it, the Pope isn't supposed to be infallible all the time; there are specific instances when he is (I don't know, but I'd imagine that it would be when he hands down edicts, rules and the like).
As for not being directly related to Peter - I hear this God fella is all-powerful, so that should sort that out.

[Tiberius Tosi]

As far as I understand it, the Pope isn't supposed to be infallible all the time; there are specific instances when he is (I don't know, but I'd imagine that it would be when he hands down edicts, rules and the like).
As for not being directly related to Peter - I hear this God fella is all-powerful, so that should sort that out.

There are actually very very few infallible decrees by Pope's, I think you can count the number of them on one hand. As for the Pope himself, well he is more so just the "best man for the job" sort of thing, and he is our best guess as to what is right. However he is not "all powerful" as the College of Cardinals can vote to cast him out if he is absolutely horrible (for example if he tries to call a Crusade or something).

Hell Americans were not so much suspicious of Catholic voters, but Catholic politicians. Even when Kennedy (a Catholic) ran, people were afraid he would listen to the Pope too much and be too influenced by him. It wasn't until Kennedy stated he fully supported separation of church and state (and thus giving birth to the idea of no religion at all in politics, which was not the founding fathers' intention at all) that people started to back off on the whole Pope thing.

[Sir Winston Churchill]

Well, to be honest we do tend to think of the Pope as "God on Earth." Although we never (or at least shouldn't) take that literally. He's like the Dali Llama, he's the figurehead, the guy we all aspire to be and he's there to help us on our spiritual path.

Many people have misunderstood or twisted the fact we think of him as "God on Earth" and have backlashed and marked us as dumb, fanatical idiots. This has been somewhat effective, as your history class taught.

[Ludicus]

So...

My question is,

After each election when a cardinal becomes pope, are they intertwined with god?

Google this: Dogma of infallibility.

[Banana Jelly]

Google this: Dogma of infallibility.

"the Pope is preserved from even the possibility of error"

Well, guess it was wrong...

[Junius]

Ok, educated in a Jesuit school, so I believe I know a fair bit about Catholicism.

The notion of Papal infallibility was never formalised until the 19th Century. The Pope can speak 'ex cathedra', or 'from the chair', about certain issues, and whatever he says becomes dogma. It only applies when he invokes it and is speaking on things of a spiritual and dogmatic nature. So Benedict can't win every game of Trivial Pursuit by shouting 'Papal infallibility'. It comes from the notion that the Holy Spirit would enlighten the Pope on certain matters.

An important part of Catholic belief is that there is a Christian tradition dating to before the writing of the Bible, since the Gospels weren't written for around 70 years after the death of Christ, and the Bible itself wasn't formalised for another 300 years. That Jesus put the care of his church into the hands of Peter and his successors is the justification for this (very simplistic, but without a couple of years studying Catholic history and theology, none of us could really understand it in detail).

It has only been used once or twice, both concerning Mary. The first time was before it was formally defined at the First Vatican Council, in 1870, when the Pope defined that the Immaculate Conception was an article of faith for Catholics. The second was about the Assumption of Mary.

[mrcrusty]

Papal infallibility is sorely misunderstood by many people.

Junius more or less has the correct reading into it.

The Pope has only invoked Papal Infallibility once or twice (depending how you look at it) during the last ~100-150 years since it was officially formalised and both times were about the nature of Mary (sinless Mary, and Mary's Assumption into Heaven). Nothing more. It's not a "ultimate win" card that the Papacy plays every chance they get, the Vatican takes into deep consideration the consequences and implications of making declarations ex cathedra and they wouldn't use it lightly. The fact that it's only been used once or twice since 1870 should clue you into that.

It also doesn't clear the Pope of personal sin and error. The Pope has the power to make binding, infallible declarations on the nature or understanding of faith and/or morals, however, this does not mean that the Pope himself is free from personal sin or error that aren't directly related to declarations ex cathedra. Certain Papal teachings are infallible, the person himself though, is not. If the Pope sins, he is just as liable as the rest of us.

Though, I feel like I've gone over this before for some reason... guess this topic comes up quite a bit.

Back on topic, the Pope is not "intertwined with God", at least in the way I'm thinking, he is the successor of St. Peter and has moral authority of the Church and by extension, all Catholics. He's not God, or part God, though, never. The best only way to think of the Pope is to compare him to St. Peter.

[Pontifex Maximus]

As far as I understand it, the Pope isn't supposed to be infallible all the time; there are specific instances when he is (I don't know, but I'd imagine that it would be when he hands down edicts, rules and the like).
As for not being directly related to Peter - I hear this God fella is all-powerful, so that should sort that out.

No- the Pope only speaks infallibly in regards to magisterium and the teaching authority of the church on issues pertaining to the faith itself. The Pope isn't infallible on issues regarding...medicine, for example.

But, even though a pope maybe the ''heir'' to Apostle Peter, he isn't through his bloodline. Which doesn't actually make him get any 'direct' relationship to god as Peter did.

Am I not right?

The Pope isn't an heir to Peter, the Pope is the head of the church. Peter was the head of the church, but the popes are his successors, not heirs. The Papal 'line' has never been hereditary, obviously, because of celibacy vows, even if they weren't always strictly adhered to. Popes are Christ's representative on earth and the head of the earthly church.

Since Popes are regularly elected and cycled by the college of cardinal's, which are some regular religious people. How are everything the Pope say 'godsend word's'? After each election when a cardinal becomes pope, are they intertwined with god?

The cardinals are guided by the holy spirit in their election of the next pope. They are acting in accordance to the will of god. Also, the cardinals are anything but regular religious people. Also, are you referring to infallibility? It only applies to matters of dogma.

[Fiyenyaa]

No- the Pope only speaks infallibly in regards to magisterium and the teaching authority of the church on issues pertaining to the faith itself. The Pope isn't infallible on issues regarding...medicine, for example.

Well, that makes me glad for one. However, it doesn't stop him passing comment on such matters though; comments that many will take at face value anyway.

[Pontifex Maximus]

Well, that makes me glad for one. However, it doesn't stop him passing comment on such matters though; comments that many will take at face value anyway.

I seriously doubt he would in any official capacity. I think the Vatican is well aware of the ice it treads upon.

[Bovril]

The discussion of Papal authority here has been pretty good. So I'll adress the other side of the OP, the discrimination against Catholics in 19th century US imigration practice. Why did this occur? Well for several reasons, but I don't think they are especially complex. One was that poto-eugenic theories were rife in mid 1800s US elite society. This meant that the "Germanic", "Nordic" or "Anglo" community was deemed inherantly superior. Since protestantism prevailed in Northern Europe, this affected perceptions of differenct populations of putative immigrants. indeed, the US instituted immigration rules whereby quotas were established for numbers of imigrants from each country or region of the world,often relying explicitly on 19th century racial catorgories.

So why were Catholics disalowed or discourcaged entrance, or demonised after entering? I think the answer to this is mainly that Catholic imigrants were from what one might call the lumpenproletariat, the poorest and most unskilled, who were very amenable to democratic influences such as those of the labour movement, and thus disturbed greatly the political elites of the US. When Eastern European Jews or Italian Catholics, armed with the class analysis and union principles of their native milieus, or receptive to those of their adopted country, came to the US, the robber barons of US capital balked at the formation of a viable labour movement who, despite brutal supresion, won such victories as the 5 day week, the 8 hour day, the prohibition of child labour, the right to organise, the right to free speech, and so on.

[Stavroforos]

To add to that Bovril, Americans had inherited much of the English anti-Catholic feeling as Protestants, with their fear of there constant being Papist conspiracies trying to thwart their movement and control them. A look at Thomas Paine's Common Sense even reveals such sentiment.

[Desperado †]

Since Popes are regularly elected and cycled by the college of cardinal's, which are some regular religious people. How are everything the Pope say 'godsend word's'? After each election when a cardinal becomes pope, are they intertwined with god?

From what I know, when voting, the Cardinals' hands' are supposedly guided by God. God is choosing his new representative on Earth through the College of Cardinals.

[Banana Jelly]

I just realized the Vatican was a country of its own

[♔Jean-Luc Picard♔]

I just realized the Vatican was a country of its own

Please tell me that you jest...

And to answer the question as several have already, Papal infallibility is only applicable to matters of faith or dogma.

[Banana Jelly]

Please tell me that you jest...

Im serious... That's why I am surprised at my self too.

I thought the Vatican was like a bank at first, with the pope as the owner of the bank.