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  1. #1
    Space Wolves's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Back from combat, women struggle for acceptance

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_female...inding_a_place

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    WASHINGTON – Nobody wants to buy them a beer.
    Even near military bases, female veterans who served in Iraq and Afghanistan aren't often offered a drink on the house as a welcome home.
    More than 230,000 American women have fought in those recent wars and at least 120 have died doing so, yet the public still doesn't completely understand their contributions on the modern battlefield.
    For some, it's a lonely transition as they struggle to find their place.
    Aimee Sherrod, an Air Force veteran who did three war tours, said years went by when she didn't tell people she was a veteran. After facing sexual harassment during two tours and mortar attacks in Iraq, the 29-year-old mother of two from Bells, Tenn., was medically discharged in 2005 with post-traumatic stress disorder.
    She's haunted by nightmares and wakes up some nights thinking she's under attack. She's moody as a result of PTSD and can't function enough to work or attend college. Like some other veterans, she felt she improperly received a low disability rating by the Department of Veterans Affairs that left her with a token monthly payment. She was frustrated that her paperwork mentioned she was pregnant, a factor she thought was irrelevant.
    "I just gave up on it and I didn't tell anyone about ever being in the military because I was so ashamed over everything," Sherrod said.
    Then Jo Eason, a Nashville, Tenn., lawyer working pro bono through the Lawyers Serving Warriors program, stepped in a few years later and Sherrod began taking home a heftier monthly disability payment.
    "I've never regretted my military service, I'm glad I did it," Sherrod said. "I'm not ashamed of my service. I'm ashamed to try and tell people about it because it's like, well, why'd you get out? All the questions that come with it."
    The Defense Department bars women from serving in assignments where the primary mission is to engage in direct ground combat. But the nature of the recent conflicts, with no clear front lines, puts women in the middle of the action, in roles such as military police officers, pilots, drivers and gunners on convoys. In addition to the 120-plus deaths, more than 650 women have been wounded.
    Back home, women face many of the same issues as the men, but the personal stakes may be greater.
    Female service members have much higher rates of divorce and are more likely to be a single parent. When they do seek help at VA medical centers, they are screening positive at a higher rate for military sexual trauma, meaning they indicated experiencing sexual harassment, assault or rape. Some studies have shown that female veterans are at greater risk for homelessness.
    Former Army Sgt. Kayla Williams, an Iraq veteran who has written about her experience, said she was surprised by the response she and other women from the 101st Airborne Division received from people in Clarksville, Tenn., near Fort Campbell, Ky.
    She said residents just assumed they were girlfriends or wives of military men.
    "People didn't come up to us and thank us for our service in the same way. They didn't give us free beers in bars in the same way when we first got back," said Williams, 34, of Ashburn, Va. "Even if you're vaguely aware of it, it still colors how you see yourself in some ways."
    Genevieve Chase, 32, of Alexandria, Va., a staff sergeant in the Army Reserves, said the same guys who were her buddies in Afghanistan didn't invite her for drinks later on because their wives or girlfriends wouldn't approve.
    "One of the hardest things that I had to deal with was, being a woman, was losing my best friends or my comrades to their families," Chase said.
    It was that sense of loss, she said, that led her to get together with some other female veterans for brunch in New York last year. The group has evolved into the American Women Veterans, which now has about 2,000 online supporters, some of whom go on camping trips and advocate for veterans' issues. About a dozen marched in this year's Veteran's Day parade in New York.
    "We just want to know that when we come home, America has our back," Chase said. "That's the biggest thing. Women are over there. You want to feel like you're coming home to open arms, rather than to a public that doesn't acknowledge you for what you've just done and what you just sacrificed."
    Rachel McNeill, a gunner during hostile convoys in Iraq, said she was so affected by the way people treated her when they learned she fought overseas that she even started to question whether she was a veteran.
    She described the attitudes as "Oh, you didn't do anything or you were just on base," said McNeill, who suffers from postconcussive headaches, ringing in her ears, and other health problems related to roadside bomb blasts. The 25-year-old from Hollandale, Wis., was a sergeant in the Army Reserves.
    She said she seemingly even got that response when she told the VA staff in Madison, Wis., of her work. She said she was frustrated to see in her VA paperwork how what she told them had been interpreted.
    "It would say like, 'the patient rode along on convoys,' like I was just a passenger in the back seat," McNeill said.
    Other women have had similar complaints. The VA leadership has said it recognizes it needs to do more to improve care for these veterans, and as part of changes in the works, female coordinators are in place at each medical center to give women an advocate. The agency is also reviewing comments on a proposal to make it easier for those who served in noninfantry roles — including women — to qualify for disability benefits for PTSD.
    Sen. Patty Murray, a member of the Senate Veterans' Affairs committee, recently asked VA Secretary Eric Shinseki and Defense Secretary Robert Gates to ensure that service members' combat experience is included on their military discharge papers, so later they can get benefits they are entitled to.
    Research has shown that a lack of validation of a soldier's service can make their homecoming more difficult.
    "What worries me is that women themselves still don't see themselves as veterans, so they don't get the care they need for post-traumatic stress syndrome or traumatic brain injury or even sexual assault, which obviously is more unique to women, so we still have a long ways to go," said Murray, D-Wash.
    Chase said one challenge is getting female veterans to ask for changes.
    "Most of us, because we were women service members, are so used to not complaining and not voicing our issues, because in the military that's considered weak. Nobody wants to hear the girl whine," Chase said.
    McNeill said that when she's been out at restaurants and bars with the guys in her unit, they make sure she gets some recognition when the free beers go around.
    "They'll make a point ... usually to say, 'She was over there with us, she was right next to us,'" McNeill said.


    Well, what are your thoughts about this little debacle? However it maybe, anyone who serves in the armed forces, at least in a war zone deserves respect instead of what they get now
    Last edited by Space Wolves; December 15, 2009 at 01:05 AM.

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  2. #2
    mrmouth's Avatar flaxen haired argonaut
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    Default Re: Back from combat, women struggle for acceptance

    Meh...

    Air Force vet lives through mortar barrage, feels misunderstood.
    The fascists of the future will be called anti-fascists
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity

  3. #3
    Lawrence of Arabia's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: Back from combat, women struggle for acceptance

    Quote Originally Posted by BarnabyJones View Post
    Meh...

    Air Force vet lives through mortar barrage, feels misunderstood.


    This was exactly what I was thinking.
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    Don't you realize that it is a good thing that so many British soldiers have already been killed as punishment for the invasion?


  4. #4
    Hub'ite's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Back from combat, women struggle for acceptance

    Quote Originally Posted by BarnabyJones View Post
    Meh...

    Air Force vet lives through mortar barrage, feels misunderstood.

    I'm tired of hearing about AF "vets" crying about deployments. For god's sake we never leave base!!!

    She's haunted by nightmares and wakes up some nights thinking she's under attack. She's moody as a result of PTSD and can't function enough to work or attend college
    Your kidding me right? You got PTSD from sitting on base for 6 months in NO DANGER?? This is why the other branches make fun of us...

  5. #5
    Erik's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Back from combat, women struggle for acceptance

    Quote Originally Posted by Hub'ite View Post
    Your kidding me right? You got PTSD from sitting on base for 6 months in NO DANGER?? This is why the other branches make fun of us...
    Read the article.

    The danger wasn't from the Iraqi's, but from the US soldiers trying to rape her.



  6. #6
    Adar's Avatar Just doing it
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    Default Re: Back from combat, women struggle for acceptance

    At least the convoy gunner have a valid point of complaint. Basicly she's a victim of the double standards used to get women into the army. They are not allowed into combat roles, which means that they are going to get less credit for their contribution. But they are allowed into rear echelon roles that at the moment also are quite risky.

    So one woman take quite significant risks without getting credit for it since she's supposed to be in "a non combat role". Other women get PTSD on an airfrield and steals all the attention from the deserving one.

  7. #7
    s.rwitt's Avatar Shamb Conspiracy Member
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    Default Re: Back from combat, women struggle for acceptance

    No ****, bfd.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Back from combat, women struggle for acceptance

    I read that this morning on Yahoo.

    My reaction was 'meh' as well.
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

    My shameful truth.

  9. #9
    s.rwitt's Avatar Shamb Conspiracy Member
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    Default Re: Back from combat, women struggle for acceptance

    I'm tired of hearing about AF "vets" crying about deployments. For god's sake we never leave base!!!
    My section leader had a pretty funny story about a chow hall in Iraq. He said they were on one of their (rare) trips to the outstanding food court on some major base and went to go hit on two AF chicks who happened to have some pretty high speed M4's with some nice attachments that would have suited him and his squad nicely while they were actually in, you know, firefights. When they asked them about their weapons, one of the girls responded "I know, isn't it pretty?"
    Your kidding me right? You got PTSD from sitting on base for 6 months in NO DANGER?? This is why the other branches make fun of us...


    +rep
    Last edited by s.rwitt; December 14, 2009 at 04:11 PM.

  10. #10
    Hub'ite's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Back from combat, women struggle for acceptance

    Quote Originally Posted by s.rwitt View Post
    My section leader had a pretty funny story about a chow hall in Iraq. He said they were on one of their (rare) trips to the outstanding food court on some major base and went to go hit on two AF chicks who happened to have some pretty high speed M4's with some nice attachments that would have suited him and his squad nicely while they were actually in, you know, firefights. When they asked them about their weapons, one of the girls responded "I know, isn't it pretty?"




    +rep
    Got a better story. An AF MSgt at a chow hall in Iraq(or Afghani) kicked a couple marines out because they were too "dirty" to be eating in chow hall. The marines just came back from outside the wire and we're just looking for hot chow. Stories like that one and yours are the reason when other branches make fun of us I just laugh along.

  11. #11
    s.rwitt's Avatar Shamb Conspiracy Member
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    Default Re: Back from combat, women struggle for acceptance

    Oh what the **** ever.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Back from combat, women struggle for acceptance

    I dare you guys to be an AF MP and go sit out on a bunker all by yourselves all night everyday for 6 months with nothing but an M60 - surrounded by charlie. My father did that and he'll never be the same. Whether or not this was this the case with this story doesn't matter. Even being indirectly witness to combat can be extremely traumatic.
    Heir to Noble Savage in the Imperial House of Wilpuri

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    Default Re: Back from combat, women struggle for acceptance

    Quote Originally Posted by Future Filmmaker View Post
    I dare you guys to be an AF MP and go sit out on a bunker all by yourselves all night everyday for 6 months with nothing but an M60 - surrounded by charlie. My father did that and he'll never be the same. Whether or not this was this the case with this story doesn't matter. Even being indirectly witness to combat can be extremely traumatic.
    What does this have to do with the story at hand?
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

    My shameful truth.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Back from combat, women struggle for acceptance

    I don't care who you are or where you are, if mortars are hitting around you, I invite you to come back and tell me it wasn't scary.

    I mean did she serve in a combat unit? No. But she did serve three tours over there and its horse- that people don't respect her.
    Heir to Noble Savage in the Imperial House of Wilpuri

  15. #15
    s.rwitt's Avatar Shamb Conspiracy Member
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    Default Re: Back from combat, women struggle for acceptance

    So one woman take quite significant risks without getting credit for it since she's supposed to be in "a non combat role". Other women get PTSD on an airfrield and steals all the attention from the deserving one.
    Happens alot. And not just with women either.
    -----------
    I dare you guys to be an AF MP and go sit out on a bunker all by yourselves all night everyday for 6 months with nothing but an M60 - surrounded by charlie. My father did that and he'll never be the same.
    Those were quite different circumstances than what the AF enlisted are doing now. Excluding PJ's of course.

  16. #16
    s.rwitt's Avatar Shamb Conspiracy Member
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    Default Re: Back from combat, women struggle for acceptance

    Got a better story. An AF MSgt at a chow hall in Iraq(or Afghani) kicked a couple marines out because they were too "dirty" to be eating in chow hall. The marines just came back from outside the wire and we're just looking for hot chow. Stories like that one and yours are the reason when other branches make fun of us I just laugh along.
    Oh I've heard stories identical to that so many times it's not even funny. But not just about the AF. I once heard it about a USMC Gunny Sgt. who ran a chow hall.
    -----------------
    I don't care who you are or where you are, if mortars are hitting around you, I invite you to come back and tell me it wasn't scary.
    Well I suggest you ask Captain Jin or Barnaby Jones if it's scary enough to have an entire article written about your experience. The fact is that far too many people claim PTSD for sympathy or money and don't rate it. This is not only outragous, it makes people doubt the authenticity of those who really do have it.

  17. #17
    Hub'ite's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Back from combat, women struggle for acceptance

    Quote Originally Posted by s.rwitt View Post
    Well I suggest you ask Captain Jin or Barnaby Jones if it's scary enough to have an entire article written about your experience. The fact is that far too many people claim PTSD for sympathy or money and don't rate it. This is not only outragous, it makes people doubt the authenticity of those who really do have it.
    Mortars hitting your base while your in an AC building isn't going to give you PTSD. Plus the mortars never even hit close to you either.

    20 bucks says the "AF vet" is personnel.
    Last edited by Hub'ite; December 14, 2009 at 06:36 PM.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Back from combat, women struggle for acceptance

    OH ME JESUS. Here it comes. What a damn farce.

    "Most of us, because we were women service members, are so used to not complaining and not voicing our issues, because in the military that's considered weak. Nobody wants to hear the girl whine," Chase said.
    Yeah right. MOST of you do complain until you get your demands met, and now your complaining to get more attention.

    That AF girl is disgusting. She is claiming PTSD over mortars and getting paid for it!? And she doesn't think it's enough!? OMFG! GET OUT.

    I don't care who you are or where you are, if mortars are hitting around you, I invite you to come back and tell me it wasn't scary.
    Ok. I'll tell you right now mortars landing near you aren't scary. There's a few reasons for that. They don't make much noise, in reality you might hear it being fired from the tube but it doesn't have some incoming whistling sound and the blast isn't altogether that large. For those who are legit, you figure out that if a mortar hits you then it hits you, there isn't anything youre going to do about it. I've been mortared at least a dozen times lol, it's nothing PTSD worthy. I remember walking out to our humvees one day and three mortars landed in the field right next to us and blew away all these sheep. We all looked at the field then at each other and were like "Oh... damn". Then we laughed, got in our trucks and drove away.

    Artillery on the other hand... that's pants ly terrifying. I wasn't even hit by artillery, just near an arty strike, not even danger close, though, and that was scary as hell.

    Mortars hitting your base while your in an AC building isn't going to give you PTSD. Plus the mortars never even hit close to you either.
    TRUTH.

    Got a better story. An AF MSgt at a chow hall in Iraq(or Afghani) kicked a couple marines out because they were too "dirty" to be eating in chow hall. The marines just came back from outside the wire and we're just looking for hot chow. Stories like that one and yours are the reason when other branches make fun of us I just laugh along.
    Dude, it's not just your branch. Marines do it to each other too. Camp Fallujah was where all the rear echelon people sat around playing xbox, working five days a week, eight hour days, going on the internet daily, using phones, watching movies, enjoying AC, salsa dance classes, halo tournaments, football, volleyball, basketball, baseball, soccer, bike riding, some places had swimming pools, oh and of course the gym.

    Now our filthy asses would roll into base to get some good chow the once a month it was permitted to us and we'd get cussed out by everyone, even other Marines, for being too dirty, not having a clean shave, or not having our damn cover. Several times I wasn't even allowed into the chow hall because I didn't have my military ID on account of the fact that I didn't carry a wallet outside the damn wire. Could my boys bring me a hot plate to go? No. Could we bring a hot plate to go for our boys not lucky enough to get back to Camp? No. They put armed guards there and said they lost too much money from people jacking food, not me mind you, just the lazy bastards posted there that didn't think breakfast, lunch, dinner AND midnight rations was enough food to stuff down their gullets. Of course on Sundays, EVERY sunday, they were treated to LOBSTER AND PRIME RIB!!!!! And in Halloween there was even trick or treating, and porcelain toilets and SHOWERS. I got to Iraq in July and didn't shower until OCTOBER!

    Am I back writing about that in newspapers to get attention or retribution? no. Cause I'm a grunt and it's the life I chose and it's the one we live. So when I come home and some veteran or other kind soul says "Hey Devil Dog, let me buy you a drink", I'm going to say YES, because I deserve it. On the other hand, just cause you did time over there might put you a step ahead of civilians in my eyes, but not by much. Not enough for me to be impressed by your three 'war tours', or your ambiguous 'duties' while serving there. Notice how their experiences are never detailed. Notice how the article says women are put right in the center of action but somehow only 120 have been killed. A shocking contrast to the 3,000 MEN that have DIED.

    I'm so sick of this bs. Those people lived in those conditions I just described and they got paid the same god damn pay as me, everyday. Then they go home and LIE to their family and friends about their experiences, many of them at least, because they are ashamed and can't admit they were just some tool over their doing jack . I don't mind a POG even he owns up to his bs, but one that comes home and demands compensation for his/her tour cause they sat on a big base can rot. The fact that they made the same money as me is sickening enough.

    Rant over for now... oh wait, this isn't women in combat related, but it is hilarious. This is a female police officer btw, about equal quality to the ones complaining in this article.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Notice how she's standing up not bothering to use cover? Well the kicker is that her magazine is f'ing inserted backward into her AR15. Stellar.

  19. #19
    Sosobra's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Back from combat, women struggle for acceptance

    Quote Originally Posted by s.rwitt View Post


    Well I suggest you ask Captain Jin or Barnaby Jones if it's scary enough to have an entire article written about your experience. The fact is that far too many people claim PTSD for sympathy or money and don't rate it. This is not only outragous, it makes people doubt the authenticity of those who really do have it.
    Anyone who does deserves to punch right in the sack , while I was in the reserves ( USMC) there where a ton of guys who would pull that (for physical and mental ). Every time it happened I thought thanks s thats why the Active duty personal thinks we are all heads.. among many other things.

    There are Marines who kill themselves because of s faking it and calling all cases in question. Its hard enough to seek help with feeling like a faker.
    I find most people irritating
    SteamID:Sosobra

  20. #20
    s.rwitt's Avatar Shamb Conspiracy Member
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    Default Re: Back from combat, women struggle for acceptance

    Notice how she's standing up not bothering to use cover? Well the kicker is that her magazine is f'ing inserted backward into her AR15. Stellar.
    Holy **** Jin, that article's about the small town my parents live in. I remember seeing that What a coincidence.

    But as for the rest of your post, I've heard pretty much those same oppinons from everyone from DI to CI's to guys in my platoon.

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