Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 50

Thread: Jesus: The Muslim Prophet

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Babur's Avatar ز آفتاب درخشان ستاره می
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Agra,Hindustan
    Posts
    15,405

    Default Jesus: The Muslim Prophet

    Found this interesting article in the New Statesman on the Muslim perspective of Jesus and shows that there is at least some common ground between Christianity and Islam.I am sure some here will think that I am claiming Jesus for Islam solely but I am not, I just wish to emphasise that we also respect him.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Jesus: the Muslim prophet

    Mehdi Hasan
    Published 10 December 2009


    Christianity is rooted in the belief that Jesus is the Son of God, so is Islam’s version of Christ a source of tension, or a way of building bridges between the world’s two largest faiths?


    Christians, perhaps because they call themselves Christians and believe in Christianity, like to claim ownership of Christ. But the veneration of Jesus by Muslims began during the lifetime of the Prophet of Islam. Perhaps most telling is the story in the classical biographies of Muhammad, who, entering the city of Mecca in triumph in 630AD, proceeded at once to the Kaaba to cleanse the holy shrine of its idols. As he walked around, ordering the destruction of the pictures and statues of the 360 or so pagan deities, he came across a fresco on the wall depicting the Virgin and Child. He is said to have covered it reverently with his cloak and decreed that all other paintings be washed away except that one.
    Jesus, or Isa, as he is known in Arabic, is deemed by Islam to be a Muslim prophet rather than the Son of God, or God incarnate. He is referred to by name in as many as 25 different verses of the Quran and six times with the title of "Messiah" (or "Christ", depending on which Quranic translation is being used). He is also referred to as the "Messenger" and the "Prophet" but, perhaps above all else, as the "Word" and the "Spirit" of God. No other prophet in the Quran, not even Muhammad, is given this particular honour. In fact, among the 124,000 prophets said to be recognised by Islam - a figure that includes all of the Jewish prophets of the Old Testament - Jesus is considered second only to Muhammad, and is believed to be the precursor to the Prophet of Islam.
    In his fascinating book The Muslim Jesus, the former Cambridge professor of Arabic and Islamic studies Tarif Khalidi brings together, from a vast range of sources, 303 stories, sayings and traditions of Jesus that can be found in Muslim literature, from the earliest centuries of Islamic history. These paint a picture of Christ not dissimilar to the Christ of the Gospels. The Muslim Jesus is the patron saint of asceticism, the lord of nature, a miracle worker, a healer, a moral, spiritual and social role model.
    “Jesus used to eat the leaves of the trees," reads one saying, "dress in hairshirts, and sleep wherever night found him. He had no child who might die, no house which might fall into ruin; nor did he save his lunch for his dinner or his dinner for his lunch. He used to say, 'Each day brings with it its own sustenance.'"
    According to Islamic theology, Christ did not bring a new revealed law, or reform an earlier law, but introduced a new path or way (tariqah) based on the love of God; it is perhaps for this reason that he has been adopted by the mystics, or Sufis, of Islam. The Sufi philosopher al-Ghazali described Jesus as "the prophet of the soul" and the Sufi master Ibn Arabi called him "the seal of saints". The Jesus of Islamic Sufism, as Khalidi notes, is a figure "not easily distinguished" from the Jesus of the Gospels.
    What prompted Khalidi to write such a pro*vocative book? "We need to be reminded of a history that told a very different story: how one religion, Islam, co-opted Jesus into its own spirituality yet still maintained him as an independent hero of the struggle between the spirit and the letter of the law," he told me. "It is in many ways a remarkable story of religious encounter, of one religion fortifying its own piety by adopting and cherishing the master spiritual narrative of another religion."
    Islam reveres both Jesus and his mother, Mary (Joseph appears nowhere in the Islamic narrative of Christ's birth). "Unlike the canonical Gospels, the Quran tilts backward to his miraculous birth rather than forward to his Passion," writes Khalidi. "This is why he is often referred to as 'the son of Mary' and why he and his mother frequently appear together." In fact, the Virgin Mary, or Maryam, as she is known in the Quran, is considered by Muslims to hold the most exalted spiritual position among women. She is the only woman mentioned by name in Islam's holy book and a chapter of the Quran is named after her. In one oft-cited tradition, the Prophet Muhammad described her as one of the four perfect women in human history.
    But the real significance of Mary is that Islam considers her a virgin and endorses the Christian concept of the Virgin Birth. "She was the chosen woman, chosen to give birth to Jesus, without a husband," says Shaykh Ibrahim Mogra, an imam in Leicester and assistant secretary general of the Muslim Council of Britain (MCB). This is the orthodox Islamic position and, paradoxically, as Seyyed Hossein Nasr notes in The Heart of Islam, "respect for such teachings is so strong among Muslims that today, in interreligious dialogues with Christians . . . Muslims are often left defending traditional . . . Christian doctrines such as the miraculous birth of Christ before modernist interpreters would reduce them to metaphors."
    With Christianity and Islam so intricately linked, it might make sense for Muslim communities across Europe, harassed, haran*gued and often under siege, to do more to stress this common religious heritage, and especially the shared love for Jesus and Mary. There is a renowned historical precedent for this from the life of the Prophet. In 616AD, six years in to his mission in Mecca, Muhammad decided to find a safer refuge for those of his followers who had been exposed to the worst persecution from his opponents in the pagan tribes of the Quraysh. He asked the Negus, the Christian king of Abyssinia (modern-day Ethiopia), to take them in. He agreed and more than 80 Muslims left Mecca with their families. The friendly reception that greeted them upon arrival in Abyssinia so alarmed the Quraysh that, worried about the prospects of Muhammad's Muslims winning more allies abroad, they sent two delegates to the court of the Negus to persuade him to extradite them back to Mecca. The Muslim refugees, claimed the Quraysh, were blasphemers and fugitives. The Negus invited Jafar, cousin of Muhammad and leader of the Muslim group, to answer the charges. Jafar explained that Muhammad was a prophet of the same God who had confirmed his revelation to Jesus, and recited aloud the Quranic account of the virginal conception of Christ in the womb of Mary:
    And make mention of Mary in the Scripture, when she had withdrawn from her people to a chamber looking East,
    And had chosen seclusion from them. Then We sent unto her Our Spirit and it assumed for her the likeness of a perfect man.
    She said: Lo! I seek refuge in the Beneficent One from thee, if thou art God-fearing.
    He said: I am only a messenger of thy Lord, that I may bestow on thee a faultless son.
    She said: How can I have a son when no mortal hath touched me, neither have I been unchaste?
    He said: So (it will be). Thy Lord saith: It is easy for Me. And (it will be) that We may make of him a revelation for mankind and a mercy from Us, and it is a thing ordained.
    Quran, 19:16-21
    Karen Armstrong writes, in her biography of Muhammad, that "when Jafar finished, the beauty of the Quran had done its work. The Negus was weeping so hard that his beard was wet, and the tears poured down the cheeks of his bishops and advisers so copiously that their scrolls were soaked." The Muslims remained in Abyssinia, under the protection of the Negus, and were able to practise their religion freely.
    However, for Muslims, the Virgin Birth is not evidence of Jesus's divinity, only of his unique importance as a prophet and a messiah. The Trinity is rejected by Islam, as is Jesus's Crucifixion and Resurrection. The common theological ground seems to narrow at this point - as Jonathan Bartley, co-director of the Christian think tank Ekklesia, argues, the belief in the Resurrection is the "deal-breaker". He adds: "There is a fundamental tension at the heart of interfaith dialogue that neither side wants to face up to, and that is that the orthodox Christian view of Jesus is blasphemous to Muslims and the orthodox Muslim view of Jesus is blasphemous to Christians." He has a point. The Quran singles out Christianity for formulating the concept of the Trinity:
    Do not say, "Three" - Cease! That is better for you. God is one God. Glory be to Him, [high exalted is He] above having a son.
    Quran 4:171
    It castigates Christianity for the widespread practice among its sects of worshipping Jesus and Mary, and casts the criticism in the form of an interrogation of Jesus by God:
    And when God will say: "O Jesus, son of Mary, did you say to the people, 'Take me and my mother as gods besides God'?" he will
    say, "Glory be to You, it was not for me to say what I had no right [to say]! If I had said it, You would have known it.
    Quran 5:116
    Jesus, as Khalidi points out, "is a controversial prophet. He is the only prophet in the Quran who is deliberately made to distance himself from the doctrines that his community is said to hold of him." For example, Muslims believe that Jesus was not crucified but was raised bodily to heaven by God.
    Yet many Muslim scholars have maintained that the Islamic conception of Jesus - shorn of divinity; outside the Trinity; a prophet - is in line with the beliefs and teachings of some of the earliest Jewish-Christian sects, such as the Ebionites and the Nazarenes, who believed Jesus to be the Messiah, but not divine. Muslims claim the Muslim Jesus is the historical Jesus, stripped of a later, man-made "Christology": "Jesus as he might have been without St Paul or St Augustine or the Council of Nicaea", to quote the Cambridge academic John Casey.
    Or, as A N Wilson wrote in the Daily Express a decade ago: "Islam is a moral and intellectual acknowledgement of the lordship of God without the encumbrance of Christian mythological baggage . . . That is why Christianity will decline in the next millennium, and the religious hunger of the human heart will be answered by the Crescent, not the Cross." Despite the major doctrinal differences, there remain areas of significant overlap, such as on the second coming of Christ. Both Muslims and Christians subscribe to the belief that before the world ends Jesus will return to defeat the Antichrist, whom Muslims refer to as Dajjal.
    The idea of a Muslim Jesus, in whatever doctrinal form, may help fortify the resolve of those scholars who talk of the need to reformulate the exclusivist concept of a Judaeo-Christian civilisation and refer instead to a "Judaeo-Christian-Muslim civilisation". This might be anathema to evangelical Christians - especially in the US, where populist preachers such as Franklin Graham see Islam as a "very evil and wicked religion" - but, as Khalidi points out, "While the Jewish tradition by and large rejects Jesus, the Islamic tradition, especially Sufi or mystical Islam, constructs a place for him at the very centre of its devotions."
    Nonetheless, Jesus remains an esoteric part of Islamic faith and practice. Where, for example, is the Islamic equivalent of Christmas? Why do Muslims celebrate the birth of the Prophet Muhammad but not that of the Prophet Jesus? "We, too, in our own way should celebrate the birth of Jesus . . . [because] he is so special to us," says Mogra. "But I think each religious community has distinct celebrations, so Muslims will celebrate their own and Christians their own."
    In recent years, the right-wing press in Britain has railed against alleged attempts by "politically correct" local authorities to downplay or even suppress Christmas. Birmingham's attempt to name its seasonal celebrations "Winterval" and Luton's Harry Potter-themed lights, or "Luminos", are notorious examples. There is often a sense that such decisions are driven by the fear that outward displays of Christian faith might offend British Muslim sensibilities, but, given the importance of Jesus in Islam, such fears seem misplaced. Mogra, who leads the MCB's interfaith relations committee, concurs: "It's a ridiculous suggestion to change the name of Christmas." He adds: "Britain is great when it comes to celebrating diverse religious festivals of our various faith communities. They should remain named as they are, and we should celebrate them all."
    Mogra is brave to urge Muslims to engage in an outward and public celebration of Jesus, in particular his birth, in order to match the private reverence that Muslims say they have for him. Is there a danger, however, that Muslim attempts to re-establish the importance of Jesus within Islam and as an integral part of their faith and tradition might be misinterpreted? Might they be misconstrued as part of a campaign by a supposedly resurgent and politicised Islam to try to take "ownership" of Jesus, in a western world in which organised Christianity is in seeming decline? Might it be counterproductive for interfaith relations? Church leaders, thankfully, seem to disagree.
    “I have always enjoyed spending time with Muslim friends, with whom we as Christians have so much in common, along with Jewish people, as we all trace our faith back to Abraham," the Archbishop of York, Dr John Sentamu, tells me. "When I visit a mosque, having been welcomed in the name of 'Allah and His Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon Him', I respond with greetings 'in the name of Jesus Christ, whom you Muslims revere as a prophet, and whom I know as the Saviour of the World, the Prince of Peace'."
    Amid tensions between the Christian west and the Islamic east, a common focus on Jesus - and what Khalidi calls a "salutary" reminder of when Christianity and Islam were more open to each other and willing to rely on each other's witness - could help close the growing divide between the world's two largest faiths. Mogra agrees: "We don't have to fight over Jesus. He is special for Christians and Muslims. He is bigger than life. We can share him."
    Reverend David Marshall, one of the Church of England's specialists on Islam, cites the concluding comments from the Archbishop of Canterbury, Rowan Williams, at a recent seminar for Christian and Muslim scholars. He said he had been encouraged by "the quality of our disagreement". "Christians and Muslims disagree on many points and will continue to do so - but how we disagree is not predetermined," says Marshall. "Muslims are called by the Quran to 'argue only in the best way with the People of the Book' [Quran 29:46], and Christians are encouraged to give reasons for the hope that is within them, 'with gentleness and reverence' [1 Peter 3:15]. If we can do this, we have no reason to be afraid."
    “The Muslim Jesus" by Tarif Khalidi is published by Harvard University Press (£14.95)
    Mehdi Hasan is the NS's senior editor (politics)

    http://www.newstatesman.com/religion...uslims-prophet

    Under the patronage of Gertrudius!

  2. #2
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Scotland, UK.
    Posts
    11,239

    Default Re: Jesus: The Muslim Prophet

    " I just wish to emphasise that we also respect him."

    Babur,

    Do you really respect Him? Was He not the man of whom Gabriel said was to be God with us?

  3. #3

    Default Re: Jesus: The Muslim Prophet

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    " I just wish to emphasise that we also respect him."

    Babur,

    Do you really respect Him? Was He not the man of whom Gabriel said was to be God with us?

    Basics still around...

    Was He not the man of whom Gabriel said was to be God with us
    Bring me a passage from the Bible that says this please. I have many times asked you to back up your claims instead of writing a long and no logic containing posts about your own stories.

    Use the Bible.

    Do you really respect Him?
    Do you really respect him? I think i am the one who should be asking this question.

    Have you seen a single Muslim mocking Jesus? Watch South Park you will understand.
    Rulers usually appoint people to watch over their subjects. I appoint you a watcher over me and my behaviour. If you find me at fault in word or action guide me and stop me from doing it.
    Umar Ibn Abd al-Aziz

  4. #4
    boofhead's Avatar Dux Limitis
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Mining Country, Outback Australia.
    Posts
    19,332

    Default Re: Jesus: The Muslim Prophet

    Quote Originally Posted by Caucasus View Post
    Bring me a passage from the Bible that says this please. I have many times asked you to back up your claims instead of writing a long and no logic containing posts about your own stories.

    Use the Bible.
    I'll help you out here.

    Isaiah 7:14.

    Matthew 1:23.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Jesus: The Muslim Prophet

    Quote Originally Posted by boofhead View Post
    I'll help you out here.

    Isaiah 7:14.

    Matthew 1:23.

    14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you [a] a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and [b] will call him Immanue


    23"The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel"[a]—which means, "God with us."


    Where does it say that HE REPRODUCED HIM/IT in mortal form ?
    Rulers usually appoint people to watch over their subjects. I appoint you a watcher over me and my behaviour. If you find me at fault in word or action guide me and stop me from doing it.
    Umar Ibn Abd al-Aziz

  6. #6
    cfmonkey45's Avatar Praeses
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Los Angeles, California
    Posts
    8,222

    Default Re: Jesus: The Muslim Prophet

    Quote Originally Posted by Caucasus View Post
    14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you [a] a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and [b] will call him Immanue


    23"The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel"[a]—which means, "God with us."


    Where does it say that HE REPRODUCED HIM/IT in mortal form ?

    Say, wha????

    Because Jesus, born of a Virgin, declared by Gabriel to be called Immanuel, was crucified. You have to be mortal to die, buddy. It's kind of the definition.

  7. #7
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Scotland, UK.
    Posts
    11,239

    Default Re: Jesus: The Muslim Prophet

    " Bring me a passage from the Bible that says this please. I have many times asked you to back up your claims instead of writing a long and no logic containing posts about your own stories."

    Caucasus,

    Mathew 1:23, states,

    " Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call His name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us."

    and just before in verse 21,

    " And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call His name Jesus : for He shall save His people from their sins."

    Jesus by interpretation means saviour and who in all Scripture both Old and New is known as Saviour? Why God Himself. My stories are a result of what that Saviour did to my life and that is why it is important to point them out. God is very active in the lives of His own because He does what no other can do, He delivers.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Jesus: The Muslim Prophet

    To even suggest that Muslims don't respect Jesus is absurd. He is among the greatest of the Prophets and sits at the side of God in Heaven, awaiting his return at the end of days. That is the Muslim theology, and it has no trace of disrespect -- much the opposite. Don't confuse theological differences with disposition.
    قرطاج يجب ان تدمر

  9. #9
    /|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    10,770

    Default Re: Jesus: The Muslim Prophet

    I saw that one coming, basics. And I think you're right to question it.

    I think that he means he respects the muslim version of him. The version where Jesus is just a prototype prophet before god realised that a Mohammed was necessary...

    He probably doesn't mean that he respects the christian Jesus at all, just the muslim one, or the historical figure
    Last edited by Taiji; December 13, 2009 at 04:34 PM.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Jesus: The Muslim Prophet

    Quote Originally Posted by Taiji View Post
    I saw that one coming, basics.

    He means he respects the muslim version of him. The version where Jesus is just a prototype prophet before god realised that a mohammed was necessary...

    He doesn't mean that he respects the christian Jesus at all, just the muslim one, or the historical figure
    Babur,

    Do you really respect Him? Was He not the man of whom Gabriel said was to be God with us?
    No he was not, do not come here and play Basics lawyer man.


    He clearly asked Babur if he really did respect him.

    Then he asks was Isa not the man to be God with us.

    I do know that my english sucks, but please man....
    Rulers usually appoint people to watch over their subjects. I appoint you a watcher over me and my behaviour. If you find me at fault in word or action guide me and stop me from doing it.
    Umar Ibn Abd al-Aziz

  11. #11

    Default Re: Jesus: The Muslim Prophet

    Quote Originally Posted by Taiji View Post
    . The version where Jesus is just a prototype prophet before god realised that a Mohammed was necessary...
    it has nothing to do with that
    or moses is the prototype before jesus

    Quote Originally Posted by Monarchist View Post
    Even if Muslims put Jesus above Mohammad, it is still a demotion from "God and man" to mere "man". Perhaps Muslims just don't understand how important it is that Jesus be the Son, and not just some important prophet?

    The way we see it, Jesus is hundreds of thousands of millions of times greater than any prophet, for He ended time and expectation. All we have is to wait for Him to come again, and to expect nothing new but that.
    While there are muslims saying "this prophet is greater than this one", the quran tells to put no prophet above another, to considere them equal
    Last edited by Yosemite; December 15, 2009 at 06:26 AM.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Jesus: The Muslim Prophet

    A very interesting read. Read the whole thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan the Man
    obviously I'm a large angry black woman and you're a hot blonde!

  13. #13
    /|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    10,770

    Default Re: Jesus: The Muslim Prophet

    What's up, Caucasus? I get the impression you don't like something I said but I don't really understand your criticism.

    By the way, your english looks pretty damn good to me

    Oh and I tend to edit my posts up to 10 mins after writing them initially, sorry if that throws you off

    edit:

    Here's something that supports the message of my post; 'Muslims claim the Muslim Jesus is the historical Jesus, stripped of a later, man-made "Christology"...', I quoted that from the article in the OP.
    Last edited by Taiji; December 13, 2009 at 11:25 AM.

  14. #14
    Monarchist's Avatar Civitate
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    4,803

    Default Re: Jesus: The Muslim Prophet

    I was under the impression that Muslims believed Jesus merely to be the second-greatest prophet, and not the Son of God, and this seems to confirm the impression. The problem is that, with Jesus' coming, Christians consider all important things in history to have ended. All that remains for us is to await the Second Coming with good will, faith, grace, and works for the poor, etc. Even if Muslims put Jesus above Mohammad, it is still a demotion from "God and man" to mere "man". Perhaps Muslims just don't understand how important it is that Jesus be the Son, and not just some important prophet?

    The way we see it, Jesus is hundreds of thousands of millions of times greater than any prophet, for He ended time and expectation. All we have is to wait for Him to come again, and to expect nothing new but that.
    "Pauci viri sapientiae student."
    Cicero

  15. #15
    Copperknickers II's Avatar quaeri, si sapis
    Citizen

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    The Carpathian Forests (formerly Scotlland)
    Posts
    12,641

    Default Re: Jesus: The Muslim Prophet

    Quote Originally Posted by Monarchist View Post
    I was under the impression that Muslims believed Jesus merely to be the second-greatest prophet, and not the Son of God, and this seems to confirm the impression.
    They believe Jesus to be begotten of Allah : "Jesus is to Allah as Adam: Allah created him directly".

    Jesus resides in heaven with Allah.

    The mantra is 'Islam was introduced by Abraham, explained by Jesus, and finalised by Muhammed (pbuh), through Allah's will'.
    A new mobile phone tower went up in a town in the USA, and the local newspaper asked a number of people what they thought of it. Some said they noticed their cellphone reception was better. Some said they noticed the tower was affecting their health.

    A local administrator was asked to comment. He nodded sagely, and said simply: "Wow. And think about how much more pronounced these effects will be once the tower is actually operational."

  16. #16

    Default Re: Jesus: The Muslim Prophet

    If I'm not mistaken, according to Muslim theology Jesus is the right hand of God, as is Muhammed. He was birthed through God's intervention. He will make his Second Coming during the Muslim version of Armageddon and fight against the Islamic Antichrist and will help unite all the Abrahamic peoples together and will rule them after the Mahdi's death. Not really that different from Christian theology apart from the major difference between being a prophet/leader supported by God and the Son of God who's part of the Trinity.
    Quote Originally Posted by A.J.P. Taylor
    Peaceful agreement and government by consent are possible only on the basis of ideas common to all parties; and these ideas must spring from habit and from history. Once reason is introduced, every man, every class, every nation becomes a law unto itself; and the only right which reason understands is the right of the stronger. Reason formulates universal principles and is therefore intolerant: there can be only one rational society, one rational nation, ultimately one rational man. Decisions between rival reasons can be made only by force.





    Quote Originally Posted by H.L Spieghel
    Is het niet hogelijk te verwonderen, en een recht beklaaglijke zaak, Heren, dat alhoewel onze algemene Dietse taal een onvermengde, sierlijke en verstandelijke spraak is, die zich ook zo wijd als enige talen des werelds verspreidt, en die in haar bevang veel rijken, vorstendommen en landen bevat, welke dagelijks zeer veel kloeke en hooggeleerde verstanden uitleveren, dat ze nochtans zo zwakkelijk opgeholpen en zo weinig met geleerdheid verrijkt en versiert wordt, tot een jammerlijk hinder en nadeel des volks?
    Quote Originally Posted by Miel Cools
    Als ik oud ben wil ik zingen,
    Oud ben maar nog niet verrot.
    Zoals oude bomen zingen,
    Voor Jan Lul of voor hun god.
    Ook een oude boom wil reizen,
    Bij een bries of bij een storm.
    Zelfs al zit zijn kruin vol luizen,
    Zelfs al zit zijn voet vol worm.
    Als ik oud ben wil ik zingen.

    Cò am Fear am measg ant-sluaigh,
    A mhaireas buan gu bràth?
    Chan eil sinn uileadh ach air chuart,
    Mar dhìthein buaile fàs,
    Bheir siantannan na bliadhna sìos,
    'S nach tog a' ghrian an àird.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jörg Friedrich
    When do I stop being a justified warrior? When I've killed a million bad civilians? When I've killed three million bad civilians? According to a warsimulation by the Pentagon in 1953 the entire area of Russia would've been reduced to ruins with 60 million casualties. All bad Russians. 60 million bad guys. By how many million ''bad'' casualties do I stop being a knight of justice? Isn't that the question those knights must ask themselves? If there's no-one left, and I remain as the only just one,

    Then I'm God.
    Quote Originally Posted by Louis Napoleon III, Des Idees Napoleoniennes
    Governments have been established to aid society to overcome the obstacles which impede its march. Their forms have been varied according to the problems they have been called to cure, and according to character of the people they have ruled over. Their task never has been, and never will be easy, because the two contrary elements, of which our existence and the nature of society is composed, demand the employment of different means. In view of our divine essence, we need only liberty and work; in view of our mortal nature, we need for our direction a guide and a support. A government is not then, as a distinguished economist has said, a necessary ulcer; it is rather the beneficent motive power of all social organisation.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfgang Held
    I walked into those baracks [of Buchenwald concentrationcamp], in which there were people on the three-layered bunkbeds. But only their eyes were alive. Emaciated, skinny figures, nothing more but skin and bones. One thinks that they are dead, because they did not move. Only the eyes. I started to cry. And then one of the prisoners came, stood by me for a while, put a hand on my shoulder and said to me, something that I will never forget: ''Tränen sind denn nicht genug, mein Junge,
    Tränen sind denn nicht genug.''

    Jajem ssoref is m'n korew
    E goochem mit e wenk, e nar mit e shtomp
    Wer niks is, hot kawsones

  17. #17
    Ummon's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    19,146

    Default Re: Jesus: The Muslim Prophet

    Einstein was in truth a biscuit seller. Relativity is about biscuits.

    But I respect him.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

  18. #18
    Orko's Avatar Praeses
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Petah Tikva, Israel
    Posts
    8,916

    Default Re: Jesus: The Muslim Prophet

    They definetely DO respect. There is no question regarding it. It's just that there's too much other difference between Chrisian and Muslim theology.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus Aurelius
    Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Jesus: The Muslim Prophet

    This is exactly what I tried to say. In my other thread 6 months ago. But everyone bashed me. Sadly...

  20. #20
    dogukan's Avatar Praeses
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Middle freaking east
    Posts
    7,775

    Default Re: Jesus: The Muslim Prophet

    The thing about Jesus not being the son is that, Muslims believe God is so superfreakingawesome that it is impossible for him/her to have a humanly relation.
    Not to mention, Christians view Jesus like God. As a person who has seen the both sides of the coin...I can tell you that, Muslims talk about Muhammed rarely. The main name they use is Allah. However Christiian use the word Jesus more than god.

    This is the reaon of this main seperation. Jesus is very much like god to Christians. Muslims, although respect Muhammed extremely, do not compare him to god.
    "Therefore I am not in favour of raising any dogmatic banner. On the contrary, we must try to help the dogmatists to clarify their propositions for themselves. Thus, communism, in particular, is a dogmatic abstraction; in which connection, however, I am not thinking of some imaginary and possible communism, but actually existing communism as taught by Cabet, Dézamy, Weitling, etc. This communism is itself only a special expression of the humanistic principle, an expression which is still infected by its antithesis – the private system. Hence the abolition of private property and communism are by no means identical, and it is not accidental but inevitable that communism has seen other socialist doctrines – such as those of Fourier, Proudhon, etc. – arising to confront it because it is itself only a special, one-sided realisation of the socialist principle."
    Marx to A.Ruge

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •