Greek Firethrower Tactics

[Fremen Jones]

Hi guys,

I have a question about how to best use the Byzantine Greek Firethrower?

If you could set up a byzantine army of your choice including 2 to 5 units of Greek Firethrowers, how would it look like + tactic ?

I'm playing Medieval for more then 2-3 years now, I played all European factions, and therefore always played RTW, but I never succeeded in making good tactics with the greek firethrowers without losing many soldiers of them.

Thanks

[Dave Strider]

use them like an Arquebuiser unit. Put them in front on loose formation, let them reek havoc, then move them back before they are slaughtered.

[Fremen Jones]

The problem I have is that the charging enemy infantry reaches my flamethrowers faster then they can fire their fire and retreat ..

[Selifator]

Try and use some arty to disrupt their formation and slow them down.

[Fremen Jones]

Try and use some arty to disrupt their formation and slow them down.

Could be a (good) option but then I have a big movement range problem

When it would be a battle in the close area of constantinople it would be a good solution although I would prefer a tactic without artillery ..

[Nazgûl Killer]

Well, in this case I would suggest to put spearmen (Which we all know the Byzantines have enough of) at their flanks to protect them and let the wreak havoc. This way, the cavalry will have no chance of getting to them in time and they will be well protected.

To be honest though, I really dislike all those units. Gunpowder, firethrowers... I just don't like them. They tend to be so needy (If you put them on a hill, they hardly hit anything, if you put them on the plains, they kill your own troops, if you put them in a castle, they hit nothing...) and I find them quite useless. I'd much prefer to use artillery units instead.
This is, of course, excluding the Camel Gunners and all the missile cavalry units

[Fremen Jones]

Well, in this case I would suggest to put spearmen (Which we all know the Byzantines have enough of) at their flanks to protect them and let the wreak havoc. This way, the cavalry will have no chance of getting to them in time and they will be well protected.

To be honest though, I really dislike all those units. Gunpowder, firethrowers... I just don't like them. They tend to be so needy (If you put them on a hill, they hardly hit anything, if you put them on the plains, they kill your own troops, if you put them in a castle, they hit nothing...) and I find them quite useless. I'd much prefer to use artillery units instead.
This is, of course, excluding the Camel Gunners and all the missile cavalry units

You have a point in use of gunpowder etc, I don't like them either .. Give me the old styled sword vs sword instead of sword vs gun! (that's why Byzantium is my favorite to play with)

But firethrowers can only be made in Constantinople so they can't be used often and are hard to retrain.
So it's quite fun when battling in or around Constantinople and use those firethrowers

And about the cavalry charges on my firethrower I'd prefer to have some byzantine guard archers to deploy stakes in front of my firethrowers instead of all those spearman ..

[Nazgûl Killer]

You have a point in use of gunpowder etc, I don't like them either .. Give me the old styled sword vs sword instead of sword vs gun! (that's why Byzantium is my favorite to play with)

But firethrowers can only be made in Constantinople so they can't be used often and are hard to retrain.
So it's quite fun when battling in or around Constantinople and use those firethrowers

And about the cavalry charges on my firethrower I'd prefer to have some byzantine guard archers to deploy stakes in front of my firethrowers instead of all those spearman ..

Completely forgot they had stakes!

[Selifator]

Then you could try and use some light cavalry to draw attention early on, though this might cause enemy cavalry to give chase and thus force your light cav to flee. You could scout the battlefield for rocks or the like, terrain that hampers enemy movement and leaves them vulnerable to your flamethrowers.
You could also deploy your flamethrowers on the flanks and slightly to the rear of your main infantry, which would then be used to draw attention. When the enemy comes close you unleash the inferno and then attack with infantry.

[John Doe]

I never used those greek firethrower, but I guess what I sometime use with Xbows could do the trick.
The two I would see is to leave a small gap between your infantry, so while they are holding the enemy, the firethrower destroy whatever stands in the gaps. You can mix the two formation as well. Just make sure you are not flanked.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Of course you also have to make sure the gap is big enough so that your troops are safe, but still small enough to prevent the enemy from passing through.

[Fremen Jones]

I never used those greek firethrower, but I guess what I sometime use with Xbows could do the trick.
The two I would see is to leave a small gap between your infantry, so while they are holding the enemy, the firethrower destroy whatever stands in the gaps. You can mix the two formation as well. Just make sure you are not flanked.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Of course you also have to make sure the gap is big enough so that your troops are safe, but still small enough to prevent the enemy from passing through.

I tried this one and it's the best tactic for using them .. Though I have to make the choice between using infantry with gaps or 1 infantry line.

Most of the time I make one close infantry line without gaps.

But this tactic can also be used by shock troops instead of flamethrowers, no? (Varangian Guards perhaps)

[King Gambrinus]

I hate firethrowers...they take an age to reload and by the time they do most of them are dead or in a melee fighting with a dagger.


Using spearmen to cover them only makes worse. They end up barbecuing your own men and you can bet they'll be enough enemies left to destroy them. Maybe peasants will cover them but they'll just rout immediatly.

Added to the fact that that annoying advisor will pop up every time you select a unit of firethrowers rambling on about how they will cause a "mass rout"...


Yeah, a mass rout of MY troops.


The only way to use them remotly effectivly is in a seige...

[Mithrane]

Plant the stakes before the battle. Put the flame throwers behind the stakes so they can JUST reach beyond them. 2-3 units of expendable troops (merc shock troops, peasants, the like) behind the flame throwers. Archers move behind and to your left flank, on a hill if possible. Defensive units behind archers. Van Guard with general on right flank.

Enemy will be slowed by the stakes and then take fire. Send in the expendables the instant the flame throwers start to reload. Ensure the enemy does not reach the flame throwers. Flame throwers get second go and eat up 2/3 of your expendables. By this time, enemy rush should be routing.

Assuming the enemy does not have large spear force marching in as second wave, send general far behind on right flank, taking out any flanking shock troops or light cavalry they meet. Send Van Guard into the enemy's right flank. Pepper center/left with archers.

Anything which makes a move on your center / left gets one more round of fire, then your defensive infantry march down in guard mode. General should be finished with his group by now. As soon as the infantry near the enemy, charge general in. Tell archers to hold fire. Move van guard to cover flame / archers and ensure general has place to escape to.

Send in rest of expendables if any left. Don't chase with infantry. Call troops back. Set up as close to original positions as possible. Modify for enemy movements. They will rout again as soon as they get in range of fire, and your archers will decimate them.

[Reconquistador]

I like how trying to replicate the greek firethrowers versus cavalry charge in the Crusades opening movie will get all your firethrowers killed.

[Fremen Jones]

I like how trying to replicate the greek firethrowers versus cavalry charge in the Crusades opening movie will get all your firethrowers killed.

This happened to me this week, because of having 5 flamethrowers and being attacked from 2 sides (enemey reinforcements) I forgot one second my unit of flamethrowers being charged by enemy cavalry .. "And the flamethrowers were gone"

It was fun fighting them sometimes but now it's getting quite annoying to constant keep an eye on them

[KnightOfPortugal]

Put them behind your elite heavy infantry... yea... And after you tried, tell me the result.

[Fremen Jones]

Put them behind your elite heavy infantry... yea... And after you tried, tell me the result.

They burned their asses? :p

[KnightOfPortugal]

Human Barbecue à la Byzantine And maybe to inspire the troops

[Fremen Jones]

Human Barbecue à la Byzantine And maybe to inspire the troops

Yes sure inspire ENEMY troops

[Fremen Jones]

But what's for sure till now that Greek Firethrowers are good when fighting 1army against 1army, but the moment you fight an army that gets reïnforcements you are in certain trouble cause you cannot rush the battle ..