When did tedious become challenging?

[Madden]

I have found since the first release of SS that the more the creator(s) try to make it challenging....the more tedious it becomes.

I don't think being agitated is creating a challenge. I mean if Spear Millitia can fight off the AI Knights with the right tactics.. then why not go another route?

Instead of making it harder to get good troops..couldn't it be possible to make it harder for lesser troops to win ?... this would allow the actual players of the Mod enjoy the content more.

I apologize in advance for the rant. I've been playing SS since it was first created and have loved every release.... I just feel I need to see better quality with the Future product.

[meese]

If you haven't already, RR/RC gets rid of the spear militia > armoured knight problem which I actually never encountered. The spear militias 2 attack won't even scratch the knights' armour. Heck, even in the RR/RC thread people are complaining that the Byzantine generals are too heavily armoured and they've got nothing on the french lancers or gothic knights.

[Mega Tortas de Bodemloze]

I mean if Spear Millitia can fight off the AI Knights with the right tactics.. then why not go another route?

If the tactics are yours....Then you control the scenario. Something tells me that if you dove head first into the sub-Mod forum you would come up with something that would make you a happy camper... Betcha...

[DeliCiousTZM]

Agreed most of the times i dont even have the chance to get my best units before i either won or am bored out of my mind. And the only way they seem to make it harder is by making the AI create a trillion units. but for me this is not hard only annoying to fight vs 2 full stacks at least every turn (e.x Templar Knight vs KZE fatmid)

Now Wouldent it just be alot easier and funnier if i could pay more for my units and the computer to so aquiring soldiers and this RR is garbage giving my access liquidity(Florins money) and forcing me to exploit instead. i mean 2-3k for 1 group of my best units but the upkeep dosent have to be killer. With that system you could also buff later tier units alot better. So we dont see 2 groups of spear miltia ripping through Chivalric Knigths like nothing.

4 Tiers and i mean Tier diffrence sometimes the tiers can be identical with just 2+ armor or 1+ attack or 1+ defence skill improvement i can make a Chart if anyone is intressted

[Loose Cannon]

Agreed most of the times i dont even have the chance to get my best units before i either won or am bored out of my mind. And the only way they seem to make it harder is by making the AI create a trillion units. but for me this is not hard only annoying to fight vs 2 full stacks at least every turn (e.x Templar Knight vs KZE fatmid)

Now Wouldent it just be alot easier and funnier if i could pay more for my units and the computer to so aquiring soldiers and this RR is garbage giving my access liquidity(Florins money) and forcing me to exploit instead. i mean 2-3k for 1 group of my best units but the upkeep dosent have to be killer. With that system you could also buff later tier units alot better. So we dont see 2 groups of spear miltia ripping through Chivalric Knigths like nothing.

4 Tiers and i mean Tier diffrence sometimes the tiers can be identical with just 2+ armor or 1+ attack or 1+ defence skill improvement i can make a Chart if anyone is intressted

I agree with meese-your post utterly confuses me. Try keeping your post in black-only artists are allowed other colors. And spellcheck is in your mind-use it because the one in your computer is broken.

[arcanek]

Agreed most of the times i dont even have the chance to get my best units before i either won or am bored out of my mind. And the only way they seem to make it harder is by making the AI create a trillion units. but for me this is not hard only annoying to fight vs 2 full stacks at least every turn (e.x Templar Knight vs KZE fatmid)

Now Wouldent it just be alot easier and funnier if i could pay more for my units and the computer to so aquiring soldiers and this RR is garbage giving my access liquidity(Florins money) and forcing me to exploit instead. i mean 2-3k for 1 group of my best units but the upkeep dosent have to be killer. With that system you could also buff later tier units alot better. So we dont see 2 groups of spear miltia ripping through Chivalric Knigths like nothing.

4 Tiers and i mean Tier diffrence sometimes the tiers can be identical with just 2+ armor or 1+ attack or 1+ defence skill improvement i can make a Chart if anyone is intressted

I don't understand why later tier units have to be so much better. After all they are humans, and all equally well trained soldiers in case of professionals. The only thing that gets better is equipment, and technology progresses gradually. You just don't go from heavy mail to TITANIUM BATTLE ARMOR with 40 armor so +2 armor or +1 attack seems only natural to me. If you want later tier units massacring lower tier units like Gothic Knights did to peasant in vanilla (default MTW2) then by all means change the numbers and go ahead.

Also I don't understand why you would have to use exploit? I never had to use any in my RR/RC games.

[meese]

You've succeeded in confusing me utterly

If your'e complaining about spear militias killing chivalric knights (the mounted ones) I'm not sure what you're doing wrong because even negating the charge bonus (staying in combat rather than pulling back to charge again), I just killed 240 while losing 29. Alright, maybe there are some variables and I should redo the test but I hardly see that 29 turning into 63 any time soon.

As far as I know, RC's done an excellent job at pitting different quality troops against each other.

[vimy]

i guess the main arguement is that some people find the challenge of makeing you wait several turns to get access to top tier troops boors the hell out of some players.

after all, you have built the technology and you have the money, why cant you get 4 gothic knights a year out of your citadel or whatever.

I dont really disagree, I think real recruitment adds a flavour to the game but the artificial limmitations do leave a bad taste in my mouth. The, "historical' or more likly, ahistorical arguement is that most medieval armies relied on levies and mercs to fuel there armies is both irrelevant and innacurate.

Most medieval armies were elite formations of rich , heavily armoured skilled soldiers and part of the nobility or rueling class. The peasants were usually only raised as a last ditch or in times of desperation, and were used to soak up the arrows before the real fighting began. City militias were used to bolster the home army when fighting nearby and rarely, if ever, travel more than a few kilometeres from there home city.

Now elite, as US general Norman Schwartkopf said, "is relative." Some elites were not as good as others, but they were fighting men. Being forced to go on an aggressive campaign in a hostile land with spear militia is just not historical. Its also not fun.

BUT
It does slow down the pace of the game, which is probably what was intended.
I gues that makes me of two minds on the subject.

Not that I can complain, this is the best mod outthere and RR-RC makes it better.

[meese]

In short, RR/RC was designed to make it take longer to recruit the more advanced units. If you don't like the sub-mod, don't use it.

I remember playing as France and having lots of fun running around with thousands of feudal troops, not caring that there probably weren't that many nobles in the country at the time, so some were probably peasants playing dress-up.

Now, I play as France with light men at arms and spear militia to start with, among other units lik sergeant spearmen, and so I'm not stuck with the basic spear militia armies. As scotland, I often have highlanders. And in fact, with most armies I dont' have just the basic spear militias because each does have more troops and this is made even better with the AoR system. So no I don't usually invade with many spear militias and those that have tagged along were probably invalids or something.