If Russia joined Central Powers and Ottoman Empire and Austro-Hungary joined Entente in WWI, who would win the war?

[Heathen Hammer]

So what if Germany decided to side with Russia instead of Austro-Hungary and Ottomans, and accept its dominance on Balkans in exchange for resources and military presence on Western Front? Austro-Hungary and Ottoman Empire, on the other hand, join Entente. The beginning is similar - Austro-Hungary attacks Serbia, as a consequence to the assassination of Austrian Archduke Franz Ferdinand in Sarajevo. How would the Great War result this time?

[Niles Crane]

I expect that unless the Russians were trained to the same standard as the Germans or if their armies were staffed by German officers, the result would be relatively similar with the Entente winning overall.

[Monarchist]

See: Treaty of Brest-Litovsk. At least the Austro-Hungarians, impossible to deal with as they were, actually got a few victories under their belt in 1915 and 1916. The Russians, on the other hand, were almost completely unprepared for the conflict. They had only begun industralization very recently in 1914; in 1913, Nicholas II was only just beginning to remark how Moscow was starting to look like Manchester, England (notorious for industry). By contrast, Germany (your theoretical ally of Russia) was well ahead of the industrial race in 1890. For those two empires to ally in 1914 would have required Germany to update Russia very heavily. This would have been a huge waste of time for German engineers and scientists, as well as a drain on resources in that vital period of wartime.

Russia was chronically unequipped even to fight Japan in 1904 and 1905, losing to that tiny Island Empire easily after the battle of Port Arthur. In September, 1914, the Russians managed to lose their very first major battle in WWI, Tannenberg. For the First World War to have been won by Russia and Germany together would have required a comedically bad war effort on the part of Turkey/Austria/England/France.

Bottom line: when you have England on your side, you win. The Kaiser once remarked that, if a general war were to break out, one would have to watch where England went - to that side would be the victory, thanks to the navy and massive industrialization. The Russian army of 1914 was not that of 1944, trust me.

[Sir Pignans]

Wait a minute, wasn't the whole reason that WW1 started BECAUSE of the Russians? So, how would the war start if they were on the central powers side?

[Monarchist]

Wait a minute, wasn't the whole reason that WW1 started BECAUSE of the Russians? So, how would the war start if they were on the central powers side?

Franz Ferdinand was assassinated in Sarajevo. Austria responded by invading that nation in late July, 1914. The "world" war began in early August, 1914. It became global precisely because Russia rushed to defend Serbia, its Slavic neighbour (Nicholas II had been developing a certain love for the Balkans since 1911). This triggered France to respond by mobilizing, as France had made an agreement with Russia to mutually defend each other if one of them went to war. France having declared war on Austria for Austria having declared war on Russia, Germany declared war on France for France having declared war on Austria! This allowed the Germans to start their invasion of France, but they only invaded France via Belgium, which dragged England in because they had a treaty from 1839 vowing to defend Belgium's sovereignty from foreign invasion.

Thus: WWI.

[Sir Pignans]

Franz Ferdinand was assassinated in Sarajevo. Austria responded by invading that nation in late July, 1914. The "world" war began in early August, 1914. It became global precisely because Russia rushed to defend Serbia, its Slavic neighbour (Nicholas II had been developing a certain love for the Balkans since 1911). This triggered France to respond by mobilizing, as France had made an agreement with Russia to mutually defend each other if one of them went to war. France having declared war on Austria for Austria having declared war on Russia, Germany declared war on France for France having declared war on Austria! This allowed the Germans to start their invasion of France, but they only invaded France via Belgium, which dragged England in because they had a treaty from 1839 vowing to defend Belgium's sovereignty from foreign invasion.

Thus: WWI.

Exactly, so.... how by putting the Russians on the central powers side start the war? If they hadn't rushed to defend Serbia then France wouldn't had been dragged in, Britain wouldn't have been brought in as Germany wouldn't have been sucked in via Belgium.

[Niles Crane]

I think the idea here is to imagine a world war with Russia on Germany's side. We must dismiss the historical causes and use our imaginations a bit.

[Sir Pignans]

Well in that case, I'm not really sure it would of made that much of a difference.

I suppose the large influx of Russia's troops on the western front could possible of made some difference, and then Austria Hungary would of had more troops on the western front...

I think the allies would still have won, but the would be no 'treaty of versailles' and the treaty would be much less harsh as the war would have probably ended in a stalemate that lent slightly in the allies favor.

EDIT: Misread the question didn't see Austria-Hungary and ottomans joining allies, we would still have won, and perhaps even more decisively.

[Monarchist]

I still maintain that the terribly inefficient Russia of 1914 could only have harmed any ally they were with.

[barbarossa pasha]

Russia was chronically unequipped even to fight Japan in 1904 and 1905, losing to that tiny Island Empire easily after the battle of Port Arthur. In September, 1914, the Russians managed to lose their very first major battle in WWI, Tannenberg. For the First World War to have been won by Russia and Germany together would have required a comedically bad war effort on the part of Turkey/Austria/England/France.

Russia lost against Germany, but Austria-Hungary was a far less formidable opponent, and by the end of 1914 the Russians had succeeded in securing the Austrian province of Galicia. Without having to worry about fighting Germany, Russia would have likely been able to make further gains against Austria-Hungary. This Russian victory forced Germany to intervene more decisively, and it was this German effort that eventually turned the tide, although much more slowly than is often assumed. If Russia did not have to worry about, or indeed was helped by, Germany, then it would have been free to continue its war against Austria-Hungary. Russia would have had greater resources available than in the real war, Austria-Hungary would have had less. Even in the real war, Russia made considerable progress against Austria-Hungary in 1914. It was German intervention that forced the dramatic retreat of Russia over the course of 1915.

Moreover, the period from 1907 to 1914 was a period of rapid industrialization geared towards heavy industries required for war. Although this process was far from complete, the comparison between 1904 and 1914 is invalid, especially when we consider the massive handicaps Russia faced fighting an enemy on the other side of Asia and linked only by a single railroad.

For those two empires to ally in 1914 would have required Germany to update Russia very heavily. This would have been a huge waste of time for German engineers and scientists, as well as a drain on resources in that vital period of wartime.

I don't see why such assistance was necessary, Austria-Hungary wasn't exactly the most advanced economy in the world in 1914 either. She even had difficulty defeating tiny Serbia.

The Russians, on the other hand, were almost completely unprepared for the conflict. They had only begun industralization very recently in 1914; in 1913, Nicholas II was only just beginning to remark how Moscow was starting to look like Manchester, England (notorious for industry).

To be fair, Moscow wasn't an industrial centre like St Petersburg was.

The ineptitude of Russia tends to be overstated, I find. Although Russia was generally inept and poorly prepared, I think that Russia allied with Germany would have easily defeated Austria-Hungary. I don't think the gulf between A-H and Russia was very large, and with German assistance I think the balance would have definitely tipped in favour of Russia/Prussia. I think in the east Russia-Prussia would have been victorious, and if this was complete by 1916, then perhaps the greater resources of Germany could have been turned towards the west earlier. The availability of Russian grain and resources may have also mitigated the effects of the British blockade of Germany.

Of course, this is all just hypothetical. If Germany-Russia were unsuccessful by the time the US joined the war, then they would have lost anyways. Also, I'm having trouble imagining a scenario where Germany sides with Russia over the matter of Serbia, or rather, that if Germany did side with Russia against Austria-Hungary that Austria-Hungary would suicidally decide to start a war anyways...

[Axeman]

Yes but lets not forget the Austrians proved themselves to be just as incompetent as the Russians and managed to take almost the entirety of Gallicia and won decisive victories *see Prezysml and Lemberg* plus what you have done is created a ring of nuetrals with more to gain by joining the central powers.

so...

Entente:
UK
France
Austria-Hungary
Ottomans

Central Powers :
Germany
Russia
Italy *motivated for land from Austria Hungary and French colonies*
Bulgaria *follows in line with Germany and Russia and wants serbian land*
Romania *wants transylvania*

Also WHY is Austria how Germany's enemy?

In all likelihood it probably stems from Prussia being harsher in 1866 and taking Bohemia-Monrovia like many suggested to Bismarck, which was the most industrialized area of the Austrian Empire.

This means that the Central Powers are now in a much better position. Russia only has to hold in Caucuses and Germany would likely not move through Belgium and hold on France and wait until Austria was taken care of. Italy would join only after it became apparent Austria was on the way out, and Serbia could benefit depending on how the war starts.

Basically it becomes a central powers victory and Russia lives to struggle another day.

[Publius Clodius Pulcher]

Scenario doesn't make much sense, but eh.

Central Powers definitely win. A-H is crushed by Germany early in the war, and with full resources to dedicate to the Western Front by the beginning of 1916, Germany wins.

[Romano-Dacis]

The Central Powers would likely have lost. Austro-Hungary's army was not that great actually and it had to be bailed out by Germany on several occasions, with the Brusilov offensive being the best example. Russia's army had equipment problems, but their initial army was pretty good; they just didn't have a well-trained reserve.

Austro-Hungary would have been steam-rolled by Germany very early in the war. The only advantage the Germans saw with fighting the Russians was their slow mobilization... which didn't actually happen... so overall Russia's army was better than Austro-Hungary's.

It would be interesting to see the performance of the Ottoman Empire's forces without German guidance.