Peltasts vs slingers

[Boriak]

Which ones are better? I know most people will say slingers but I noticed that peltasts have armour piercing as well and their javelins are stronger than bullets. Furthermore, peltasts are cheaper and they can fire over your frontal units.

I speak of course about regular slingers, not Rhodian or Balearic. I'm playing with Baktria now which is very far from both Rhodes or the Baleares.

[Diomede]

Depends on the situation. I seem to be saying that a lot recently... I like to have a mix of both because the slingers have a lot better range. They're just a cheaper archer really, skirmishers are still the main thing to use to... well, skirmish. Gaul's chosen slingers are pretty cool, two of them can even take on a Preatorian unit - with heavy losses, that is.

[Lord Fred]

If you have a decent number of skirmishers 3/4 and concentrate them on one part of the line you can wreck havoc very quickly to create a weak point you can exploit

[AchillesXX]

I would use peltasts as Baktria because they can be retrained very easily as you conquer Eastern Civ lands. Also, like you said, they are cheaper. Slingers have more ammo, but I find that peltasts have enough for most battles - especially on one hit point. I also prefer the trajectory of peltasts over that of slingers. I really love peltasts, I think they are a great unit for a level one barrack.

[Diomede]

Both good points. I mainly prefer slingers because they're more useful when heading onto the steppes - Gaul's chosen slingers even double as decent infantry.

[DimeBagHo]

In a phalanx armies I often use one unit of each. I spread them out along the front of the phalanx in loose formation, mixed together. I set the peltasts to guard and the slingers to skirmish so that they don't take too many casualties in melee. That way they keep up a constant fire on the enemy, soak up most of the enemy return fire, draw enemy units in to attack the center, but also break up any charges before they hit the pike line.

[Hurlbut]

Well isn't the heavy peltasts the next best thing?

[AchillesXX]

I love heavy peltasts. I use them in all of my Greek(ish) campaigns. However, I don't consider them true peltasts because they lack skirmish for some reason. I think that the skirmish ability is hugely awesome in general.

[Boriak]

Well isn't the heavy peltasts the next best thing?

Heavy peltasts (Thureophoroi in Baktrian case) have less ammo than peltasts. Also, they tend not to fire despite 'fire at will' and when I tell specifically which enemy unit to fire at, they tend to charge them afterwards, resulting in unnecessary casualties. Plus, peltasts are a lot cheaper.

[gaius_caesar]

Also, they tend not to fire despite 'fire at will' and when I tell specifically which enemy unit to fire at, they tend to charge them afterwards, resulting in unnecessary casualties.

They tend to be like Roman Legionnaires, only Greekier Uses a missile weapon before charging..

[nhinhonhinho]

Both of them (peltals and slinger) are good

About Peltals I like Heavy peltals (thureophoroi) than their lesser brother.I'm playing Bactria too and most of my army now is Thureophoroi and Bactrian archer.They serve very well especially Thureophoroi.They easy to train/retrain (just large town barrack).If you have 10-12 units just few volley of jevalin and your enemy will totally crush.If they still remain (or the other reinforcement stack) and your Thureophoroi is run out of jevelin you still can use them as line infantry (this is impossible for peltals).Of course I have peltals too and they seem very good for defence small setterment and increase your fire power

About slinger they can't fire over the head of your men (archer is better about this) and their fighting ability is poor (I saying about regular slinger).Because of that when the melee are join they nearly useless

The strongest slinger I think is Kestros slinger (Macedon).They cool and fire arrow!

[13lackGu4rd]

yeah I too found it weird that peltasts also have bonus vs armor. cause the way I see it the peltasts are supposed to have the better firing arcs and perhaps raw damage(against unarmored targets) while the slingers should have more ammo, more range(not sure about this, maybe just for the Rhodian/Balearic), lesser firing arcs and less damage(but bonus vs armor). also I find it puzzling that currently peltasts have the superior stats and firing arcs with the same(not sure about this) range, yet are cheaper for some reason. haven't really tested the 2 in similar situations to see which functions better, but on paper it seems very odd...

[Lord Fred]

Your post is a bit odd as Slingers have a far greater range than skirmishers.

Also think about it what is going to do more damage a small stone than hits you breaking/bruising or a wacking great spear that impales you?

[13lackGu4rd]

Your post is a bit odd as Slingers have a far greater range than skirmishers.

Also think about it what is going to do more damage a small stone than hits you breaking/bruising or a wacking great spear that impales you?

the range of regular slingers isn't that much longer than regular peltasts, and as said above it wasn't just stone but also all sorts of metallic objects as well as darts... and as mentioned in another thread(about cavalry and swords) blunt objects(stones and metallic balls in this case) have greater effect on armored targets than arrows and other arrow like projectiles(such as javelins and Roman pillum).

[Boriak]

Ancient authors seemed to believe, incorrectly, that sling-bullets could penetrate armour, and that lead projectiles, heated by their passage through the air, would melt in flight. In the first instance, it seems likely that the authors were indicating that slings could cause injury through armour by a percussive effect rather than by penetration. In the latter case we may imagine that they were impressed by the degree of deformation suffered by lead sling-bullet after hitting a hard target.

Also:

As a weapon, the sling had several clear advantages. In general, a sling bullet lobbed in a high trajectory can achieve ranges approaching 400m — significantly farther than what could be achieved by most bows, including the longbow. The only bows that would have a greater range would be Asiatic composite bow, such as the mongol bow, which had a range of approximately 500 meters. Arrows were typically loosed along relatively flat trajectories that seldom managed to send them beyond 250 meters.

I think slingers should need to be changed in game, don't you?

[Lord Fred]

Just out of interest have any of you used "Throwing arrows"?

Basically think about halfway between an arrow and a spear, they are thrown like a spear but have a string that launches the "arrow" much further.

Very simple to make a notch 2/3 of the way along in which the knotted end of the string is held in place by itself wrapped around the arrow. The trick is to produce a smooth action and have the string twisted around the shaft the right amount to produce a good spin.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3069/...3318d9.jpg?v=0

That image is an idea but when I did it I was using much bigger sticks 1cm Diameter, 1.5m long.
By hand I could launch these 20m at best but by using the string was getting up towards 100m before it got too dangerous! I assume that someone that trained with these would be able to get far greater distance

Was wondering if these had any application in Warfare?

[Alavaria]

I think slingers should need to be changed in game, don't you?

Funnily enough, in RTR:FOE, slingers have ranges from 100 to 140. Archers have a range of 140.

I have armies with 7 units of those 140 range slingers, and the carnage is pretty amusing. Unless the enemy reaches my line, anyway.

I do wonder what the effective range of a slinger was... can a bullet/stone at 300-400m hit that hard?

[Hurlbut]

Stone wasn't the only ammunition they used, they did used lead bullets (rounded like river pebbles not our cartridge bullet ).

[Graycloak]

Stone wasn't the only ammunition they used, they did used lead bullets (rounded like river pebbles not our cartridge bullet ).

I believe there is also some evidence for the occasional use of iron darts from sling/staff slings as well as iron shot.

[DimeBagHo]

In the game period lead bullets were quite common, and a lot of leftover ammo still exists.

Lead sling bullets with a winged thunderbolt engraved on one side and the inscription "take that" on the other side. 4th century BC. From Athens.

Livy and Polybius both report that the Macedonians used weighted darts in the Third Macedonian War (these are represented in XGM by Kestros Slingers).