View Poll Results: who is the greatest napoleon or hitler

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  • napoleon

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  1. #1

    Default who is the greatest napoleon or hitler

    Napoleon Bonaparte

    Born in Corsica and trained as an artillery officer in mainland France, Bonaparte rose to prominence under the First French Republic and led successful campaigns against the First and Second Coalitions arrayed against France. In 1799, he staged a coup d'état and installed himself as First Consul; five years later the French Senate proclaimed him Emperor. In the first decade of the nineteenth century, the French Empire under Napoleon, engaged in a series of conflicts - the Napoleonic Wars - involving every major European power. After a streak of victories, France secured a dominant position in continental Europe and Napoleon maintained the French sphere of influence through the formation of extensive alliances and the appointment of friends and family members to rule other European countries as French client states.
    The French invasion of Russia in 1812 marked a turning point in Napoleon's fortunes. His Grande Armée was badly damaged in the campaign and never fully recovered. In 1813, the Sixth Coalition defeated his forces at Leipzig; the following year the Coalition invaded France, forced Napoleon to abdicate and exiled him to the island of Elba. Less than a year later, he escaped Elba and returned to power, but was defeated at the Battle of Waterloo in June 1815. Napoleon spent the last six years of his life under British supervision on the island of Saint Helena. An autopsy concluded he died of stomach cancer, though Sten Forshufvud and other scientists have since conjectured that he was poisoned with arsenic.
    Napoleon's campaigns are studied at military academies the world over. While considered a tyrant by his opponents, he is also remembered for the establishment of the Napoleonic code, which laid the administrative and judicial foundations for much of Western Europe.


    Adolf Hitler

    Adolf Hitler (German pronunciation: [ˈadɔlf ˈhɪtlɐ], 20 April 1889 – 30 April 1945) was an Austrian-born German politician and the leader of the National Socialist German Workers Party (German: Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei, abbreviated NSDAP), popularly known as the Nazi Party. He was the authoritarian leader of Germany from 1933 to 1945, serving as chancellor from 1933 to 1945 and as head of state (Führer und Reichskanzler) from 1934 to 1945.
    A decorated veteran of World War I, Hitler joined the Nazi Party (DAP) in 1919 and became leader of NSDAP in 1921. Following his imprisonment after a failed coup in Bavaria in 1923, he gained support by promoting German nationalism, anti-semitism, anti-capitalism, and anti-communism with charismatic oratory and propaganda. He was appointed chancellor in 1933, and quickly transformed the Weimar Republic into the Third Reich, a single-party dictatorship based on the totalitarian and autocratic ideals of national socialism.
    Hitler ultimately wanted to establish a New Order of absolute Nazi German hegemony in Europe. To achieve this, he pursued a foreign policy with the declared goal of seizing Lebensraum "living space" for the Aryan people; directing the resources of the state towards this goal. This included the rearmament of Germany, which culminated in 1939 when the Wehrmacht invaded Poland. In response, the United Kingdom and France declared war against Germany, leading to the outbreak of the Second World War in Europe.[2]
    Within three years, Germany and the Axis powers had occupied most of Europe, and most of Northern Africa, East and Southeast Asia and the Pacific Ocean. However, with the reversal of the Nazi invasion of the Soviet Union, the Allies gained the upper hand from 1942 onwards. By 1945 Allied armies had invaded German-held Europe from all sides. Nazi forces committed numerous atrocities during the war, including the systematic killing of as many as 17 million civilians[3], an estimated six million of whom were Jews targeted in a genocide known as the Holocaust.
    In the final days of the war, at the fall of Berlin in 1945, Hitler married his long-time mistress Eva Braun and, to avoid capture by Soviet forces less than two days later, the two committed suicide

  2. #2

    Default Re: who is the greatest napoleon or hitler

    Hitler shouldn't even be in the greatest...


  3. #3
    dezikeizer's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: who is the greatest napoleon or hitler

    Quote Originally Posted by Sirota View Post
    Hitler shouldn't even be in the greatest...
    Agreed. Second: greatest in what way? If the choice has to be made between the two then it would be very helpful to have this clarified. Since there's no clarification on this I'd have to Napoleon.
    Last edited by dezikeizer; December 06, 2009 at 05:37 PM.

  4. #4
    Spartacus the Irish's Avatar Tally Ho!
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    Default Re: who is the greatest napoleon or hitler

    Apologies, but I'll be blunt; what a singularly useless thread.

    Firstly, what possible reason did you conceive of to ask such a question? What particular arguments could be conjured from an answer to such a question? And why have you simply copy-and-pasted excerpts from Wikipedia?

    Quite frankly, a useless addition to a VV already heavily overladen with purposeless threads.
    Quote Originally Posted by irelandeb View Post
    how do you suggest a battleship fire directly at tanks...?
    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus the Irish View Post
    I don't suggest it. Battleships were, believe it or not, not anti-tank weapons.

  5. #5

    Default Re: who is the greatest napoleon or hitler

    Is this some kind of joke?

    Voted for Napoleon BTW.

  6. #6

    Default Re: who is the greatest napoleon or hitler

    I think he means "Who was a better leader/conqueror".

    In terms of leadership, I'd say for the first half of WW2 it would be Hitler. He mustered a still-in-debt-from-war Germany to become one of the fiercest fighting forces in history, but later on in the war his infliction with insanity and his paranoia brought Germany's downfall.

    In terms of conquering, I'd say Napoleon. Sure, Germany had a better military structure and excellent officers and tactics, but that was Germany, not Hitler himself. Napoleon was one of the best strategists of the Napoleonic Wars, equalled in tactical prowess by very few, notably Arthur Wellesley.

  7. #7
    Lord Claremorris's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: who is the greatest napoleon or hitler

    Quote Originally Posted by RuleBritannia View Post
    I think he means "Who was a better leader/conqueror".

    In terms of leadership, I'd say for the first half of WW2 it would be Hitler. He mustered a still-in-debt-from-war Germany to become one of the fiercest fighting forces in history, but later on in the war his infliction with insanity and his paranoia brought Germany's downfall.

    In terms of conquering, I'd say Napoleon. Sure, Germany had a better military structure and excellent officers and tactics, but that was Germany, not Hitler himself. Napoleon was one of the best strategists of the Napoleonic Wars, equalled in tactical prowess by very few, notably Arthur Wellesley.
    France was bankrupt when Napoleon became 1st Consul.....And the combination of Archduke Charles and Suvorov drove the French from their gains in Italy. So France was in a worse position by far than Germany was. Napoleon was also not a strategist of genius. Most of his "brilliant" strategies were fortunate improvisations. Case in point, the Austerlitz campaign. The Archduke Charles believed the French would attack through Italy because the route was shorter and France had secure permanent depots stationed not far away, rather than through Southern Germany because Napoleon would be operating far from his supply lines and with a potentially hostile Prussia on his flank. But he failed to take into account the fact that the Grande Armee was at Boulogne, and therefore the shortest route to Vienna lay through Southern Germany. What of Spain? What were his objectives there? He probably didn't even know. In any case, neither of these two were good strategists, they gambled, once they secured one piece of territory, instead of consolidating, then gambled they could grab a little more. They thus continued on this way to their doom. I'd say the Archduke Charles was the better tactician over Wellesley too, seeing as how he outmaneuvred Jourdan and even the highly competent Moreau on several occasions, and inflicted the first battlefield defeat in Europe suffered by Napoleon himself at Aspern-Essling. Rather remarkable achievements, considering that he commanded a polyglot Austrian Army that was deficient in just about every respect compared to the French.
    "Ghlaoigh tú anuas ar an Toirneach, agus anois bain an Chuaifeach."

  8. #8
    Belisaire_'s Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: who is the greatest napoleon or hitler

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Claremorris View Post
    inflicted the first battlefield defeat in Europe suffered by Napoleon himself at Aspern-Essling. Rather remarkable achievements, considering that he commanded a polyglot Austrian Army that was deficient in just about every respect compared to the French.
    Aspern Essling isn't a defeat for Napoleon, he withdrew (in good order) because bridges collapsed behind him but until that he was near to achieve a great victory.

  9. #9
    Lord Claremorris's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: who is the greatest napoleon or hitler

    Quote Originally Posted by Belisaire_ View Post
    Aspern Essling isn't a defeat for Napoleon, he withdrew (in good order) because bridges collapsed behind him but until that he was near to achieve a great victory.
    Napoleon formed up to face the Austrians and he was smashed by them on the Marchfeld. Jean Lannes died while conducting the retreat, and Napoleon lost the field and 20,000 men. I'd say that's a defeat. Simply retreating in good order does not mean he wasn't defeated.
    "Ghlaoigh tú anuas ar an Toirneach, agus anois bain an Chuaifeach."

  10. #10

    Default Re: who is the greatest napoleon or hitler

    Hitler...

  11. #11
    No, that isn't a banana
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    Default Re: who is the greatest napoleon or hitler

    Did Napoleon like dogs? If not, than my vote goes to Adolf.

  12. #12

    Default Re: who is the greatest napoleon or hitler

    Napoleon, obviously. Hitler is not comparable to him, not even closely. They both conquered most of Europe, but unlike Hitler, Napoleon made much more effort and actually was a very talented commander. Hitler, on the other hand, came to power in a developed industrialized country and his military genius was rather poor. Although I guess he was more charismatic than Napoleon was, but Bonapart still gets my vote.

  13. #13
    Hilarion's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: who is the greatest napoleon or hitler

    Quote Originally Posted by Volh Vseslavich View Post
    Napoleon, obviously. Hitler is not comparable to him, not even closely. They both conquered most of Europe, but unlike Hitler, Napoleon made much more effort and actually was a very talented commander. Hitler, on the other hand, came to power in a developed industrialized country and his military genius was rather poor. Although I guess he was more charismatic than Napoleon was, but Bonapart still gets my vote.
    Napoleon's return to power after his first abdication refutes that last point, but I agree with the rest of your post. Also I don't think any WW2 general said that Hitler's mustache was worth 50,000 men on the battlefield .
    Last edited by Hilarion; December 06, 2009 at 10:11 PM.

  14. #14

    Default Re: who is the greatest napoleon or hitler

    I think Hitler sometimes doesn't get the credit he deserves when it comes to championing the panzer division concept. True, it was initially developed by Guderian in the Versaille years, but Hilter did have the vision to see it as the future of warfare (i.e. massed armor supported by mechanized infantry, mobile artillery and close-air-support) and he forced the old guard into adopting it. Indeed, the first panzer-division was the Adolf Hitler Body Gaurd division. So in comparison to his peers in Britain, France, Russia, Japan and the USA, he was more visionary.

    That being said, after the fall of France, Hilter starting buying into his own propaganda when it came to his own talents, and his small mindedness and ego starts the German army along a path to disaster. He began fumbling with things that were too big, and to complex for his limited military skills, but he was never able to accept this. Instead of finding real solutions he thought in terms of his own propaganda; noble German soilders fighting to the last man, super weapons, indestructible tanks, courageous counter-attacks etc.

    It is interesting to note, however, how the almost opposite happened to Stalin. At first Stalin was elbow deep in the Red Army command, not allowing any retreats, favoring hasty and ill-advised counter-attacks. But when defeat starts to become increasingly possible, he hands over command almost completely to the military, who in turn do a superb job and mount a remarkable campaign against the German forces.
    Last edited by Sphere; December 06, 2009 at 11:30 PM.

  15. #15

    Default Re: who is the greatest napoleon or hitler

    Quote Originally Posted by Sphere View Post
    I think Hitler sometimes doesn't get the credit he deserves when it comes to championing the panzer division concept. True, it was initially developed by Guderian in the Versaille years, but Hilter did have the vision to see it as the future of warfare (i.e. massed armor supported by mechanized infantry, mobile artillery and close-air-support) and he forced the old guard into adopting it. Indeed, the first panzer-division was the Adolf Hitler Body Gaurd division. ...
    Erm, the Leibstandarte was updated to a Panzerdivision in 1942 and to a division only in 1941. Before that it was a regiment so how can they be the first Panzerdivision? When the war started the SS had barely formed any major military units (Totenkopf and Wiking?) on divisional level, let alone Panzerdivisions => the Wehrmacht had formed the first Panzerdivisions and given it contained various commanders having established theoretical papers on the matter and Prussian thus German doctrine favoured war of movement and encirclement you can be pretty sure that those career soldiers knew better how to organize a new German army than Hitler!

    The actual difference is that the generals were so cautious because they actually knew what could go wrong so they were less enthusiastic about risking daredevil operations that would screw them
    "Sebaceans once had a god called Djancaz-Bru. Six worlds prayed to her. They built her temples, conquered planets. And yet one day she rose up and destroyed all six worlds. And when the last warrior was dying, he said, 'We gave you everything, why did you destroy us?' And she looked down upon him and she whispered, 'Because I can.' "
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  16. #16
    Georgy Zhukov's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: who is the greatest napoleon or hitler

    Napoleon, he, at least, brought civil order to the chaos of the revolution and made some very far reaching reforms for his nation. Thus leaving France in a greater position of strength from whence he found it.

    Hitler restored Germany to its former glory and then through his schemes turned it into a empty husk with 9 million of his own people dead.

  17. #17
    jermagon's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: who is the greatest napoleon or hitler

    I voted for Napoleon.


    George Galloway ''You don't give a damn !!!!!!!!''







  18. #18

    Default Re: who is the greatest napoleon or hitler

    hitler... france was already pretty strong b4 napoleon

    but hitler single handedly turned germany into a super power

  19. #19
    jermagon's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: who is the greatest napoleon or hitler

    Quote Originally Posted by Sipahizade View Post
    hitler... france was already pretty strong b4 napoleon

    but hitler single handedly turned Germany into a super power
    but Germany lost the war in the end and it was even conquered by the US, Britain,USSR.
    Germany became a superpower for only 3 years (1939-1942), the failed invasion of Russia ruined all his plans,Germany was no longer able to maintain control over her conquered lands. allying with Japan was another big mistake now the US declares war on Germany making the situation getting worse.


    George Galloway ''You don't give a damn !!!!!!!!''







  20. #20

    Default Re: who is the greatest napoleon or hitler

    Quote Originally Posted by Sipahizade View Post
    hitler... france was already pretty strong b4 napoleon

    but hitler single handedly turned germany into a super power


    Germany still was a superpower in comparison to its rivals even b4 Hitler took power. And even if germany wasnt a "super" power he had a lot of help and most defiantly didn't do it alone. stupid little Austrian Corporal

    i vote Napoleon on this nonsense topic....

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