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Thread: There's a drip drip drip, but it ain't coming from the Glaciers....

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  1. #1
    Syron's Avatar Civitate
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    Default There's a drip drip drip, but it ain't coming from the Glaciers....

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/8387737.stm

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    The UN panel on climate change warning that Himalayan glaciers could melt to a fifth of current levels by 2035 is wildly inaccurate, an academic says.

    J Graham Cogley, a professor at Ontario Trent University, says he believes the UN authors got the date from an earlier report wrong by more than 300 years.

    He is astonished they "misread 2350 as 2035". The authors deny the claims.

    Leading glaciologists say the report has caused confusion and "a catalogue of errors in Himalayan glaciology".

    The Himalayas hold the planet's largest body of ice outside the polar caps - an estimated 12,000 cubic kilometres of water.

    They feed many of the world's great rivers - the Ganges, the Indus, the Brahmaputra - on which hundreds of millions of people depend.

    'Catastrophic rate'

    In its 2007 report, the Nobel Prize-winning Inter-governmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) said: "Glaciers in the Himalayas are receding faster than in any other part of the world and, if the present rate continues, the likelihood of them disappearing by the year 2035 and perhaps sooner is very high if the Earth keeps warming at the current rate.

    "Its total area will likely shrink from the present 500,000 to 100,000 square kilometres by the year 2035," the report said.

    It suggested three quarters of a billion people who depend on glacier melt for water supplies in Asia could be affected.

    But Professor Cogley has found a 1996 document by a leading hydrologist, VM Kotlyakov, that mentions 2350 as the year by which there will be massive and precipitate melting of glaciers.

    "The extrapolar glaciation of the Earth will be decaying at rapid, catastrophic rates - its total area will shrink from 500,000 to 100,000 square kilometres by the year 2350," Mr Kotlyakov's report said.

    Mr Cogley says it is astonishing that none of the 10 authors of the 2007 IPCC report could spot the error and "misread 2350 as 2035".

    "I do suggest that the glaciological community might consider advising the IPCC about ways to avoid such egregious errors as the 2035 versus 2350 confusion in the future," says Mr Cogley.

    He said the error might also have its origins in a 1999 news report on retreating glaciers in the New Scientist magazine.

    The article quoted Syed I Hasnain, the then chairman of the International Commission for Snow and Ice's (ICSI) Working group on Himalayan glaciology, as saying that most glaciers in the Himalayan region "will vanish within 40 years as a result of global warming".

    When asked how this "error" could have happened, RK Pachauri, the Indian scientist who heads the IPCC, said: "I don't have anything to add on glaciers."

    The IPCC relied on three documents to arrive at 2035 as the "outer year" for shrinkage of glaciers.

    They are: a 2005 World Wide Fund for Nature report on glaciers; a 1996 Unesco document on hydrology; and a 1999 news report in New Scientist.

    Incidentally, none of these documents have been reviewed by peer professionals, which is what the IPCC is mandated to be doing.

    Murari Lal, a climate expert who was one of the leading authors of the 2007 IPCC report, denied it had its facts wrong about melting Himalayan glaciers.

    But he admitted the report relied on non-peer reviewed - or 'unpublished' - documents when assessing the status of the glaciers.

    'Alarmist'

    Recently India's Environment Minister Jairam Ramesh released a study on Himalayan glaciers that suggested that they may be not melting as much due to global warming as it is widely feared.

    He accused the IPCC of being "alarmist".

    Mr Pachauri dismissed the study as "voodoo science" and said the IPCC was a "sober body" whose work was verified by governments.

    But in a joint statement some the world's leading glaciologists who are also participants to the IPCC have said: "This catalogue of errors in Himalayan glaciology... has caused much confusion that could have been avoided had the norms of scientific publication, including peer review and concentration upon peer-reviewed work, been respected."

    Michael Zemp from the World Glacier Monitoring Service in Zurich also said the IPCC statement on Himalayan glaciers had caused "some major confusion in the media".

    "Under strict consideration of the IPCC rules, it should actually not have been published as it is not based on a sound scientific reference.

    "From a present state of knowledge it is not plausible that Himalayan glaciers are disappearing completely within the next few decades. I do not know of any scientific study that does support a complete vanishing of glaciers in the Himalayas within this century."

    Last edited by Astaroth; December 07, 2009 at 04:57 AM. Reason: spoiler added
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  2. #2

    Default Re: There's a drip drip drip, but it ain't coming from the Glaciers....

    So - his scientific argument is that ten different people have misread a date? That's pretty weak, isn't it?

  3. #3

    Default Re: There's a drip drip drip, but it ain't coming from the Glaciers....

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrets54 View Post
    So - his scientific argument is that ten different people have misread a date? That's pretty weak, isn't it?
    Wow, that's all you got out of that article?
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  4. #4

    Default Re: There's a drip drip drip, but it ain't coming from the Glaciers....

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    Wow, that's all you got out of that article?
    What else was there?

  5. #5

    Default Re: There's a drip drip drip, but it ain't coming from the Glaciers....


    When will the conspiracy end?
    They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more.

  6. #6

    Default Re: There's a drip drip drip, but it ain't coming from the Glaciers....

    Quote Originally Posted by The spartan View Post

    When will the conspiracy end?
    I know, right? When will people stop claiming that humans can somehow control the weather?

    At this rate we will be discovering that the atmosphere is growing colder, but the main model had coffee poured on it and malfunctioned.
    Everything the State says is a lie, everything it has is stolen.

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  7. #7

    Default Re: There's a drip drip drip, but it ain't coming from the Glaciers....

    Quote Originally Posted by Snoopy View Post
    I know, right? When will people stop claiming that humans can somehow control the weather?

    At this rate we will be discovering that the atmosphere is growing colder, but the main model had coffee poured on it and malfunctioned.
    lol, it has nothing to do with weather.
    They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more.

  8. #8

    Default Re: There's a drip drip drip, but it ain't coming from the Glaciers....

    Quote Originally Posted by The spartan View Post
    lol, it has nothing to do with weather.
    Just like Biology has nothing to do with cells.
    Everything the State says is a lie, everything it has is stolen.

    State is the name of coldest of all the cold monsters. Coldly it lies; and this slips from its mouth: "I, the state, am the people"

  9. #9

    Default Re: There's a drip drip drip, but it ain't coming from the Glaciers....

    Quote Originally Posted by Snoopy View Post
    Just like Biology has nothing to do with cells.
    This issue doesn't really have anything to do with weather, sorry champ.
    They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more.

  10. #10

    Default Re: There's a drip drip drip, but it ain't coming from the Glaciers....

    Quote Originally Posted by Snoopy View Post
    I know, right? When will people stop claiming that humans can somehow control the weather? ...
    When a better fitting hypothesis is formulated that explains the rate of climate change taking place which deviates from the expected rates of natural changes?

    Other than that: Humans actually know how to manipulate the weather on a regional scale so there is little reason to believe it doesn't work on global scale as well - just the numbers are bigger and the factors many times more.
    "Sebaceans once had a god called Djancaz-Bru. Six worlds prayed to her. They built her temples, conquered planets. And yet one day she rose up and destroyed all six worlds. And when the last warrior was dying, he said, 'We gave you everything, why did you destroy us?' And she looked down upon him and she whispered, 'Because I can.' "
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  11. #11

    Default Re: There's a drip drip drip, but it ain't coming from the Glaciers....

    Quote Originally Posted by The spartan View Post

    When will the conspiracy end?
    Not a conspiracy - just facts.

  12. #12
    Scipio praeditus's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: There's a drip drip drip, but it ain't coming from the Glaciers....

    I'd suggest watching this video if you have any real interest, instead of just wanting to refute any and all conspiracies:


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zOXmJ4jd-8

    Try debunking that.
    Last edited by Scipio praeditus; December 06, 2009 at 11:00 PM.
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    In the latter case it was the duty of any thinking human, to press himself into the front of this depraved movement, to perhaps still prevent the extreme, in the former case the founders of this peoples disease must have been true devils; for only in the brain of a monster - not of a human - could the plan for an organisation take meaningfull form, whose purpose must lead toward the end result of a collapse of human culture and thus to the desolation of the world.
    In this case only battle remained as a means of final delivery, battle with any weapons that the human mind, intellect and will are able to comprehend, regardless, of whom fate would gift with it's blessing."

  13. #13
    Erik's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: There's a drip drip drip, but it ain't coming from the Glaciers....

    Quote Originally Posted by The spartan View Post

    When will the conspiracy end?
    I think it will go the same way as the theory of evolution.

    The more evidence there is, the more the "skeptics" will deny it because they just don't want to admit that they have been wrong.



  14. #14

    Default Re: There's a drip drip drip, but it ain't coming from the Glaciers....

    Lol, I think its funny we are seeing so many of these climate threads lately. I mean, does the fallacy really go that deep?
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  15. #15
    Valiant Champion's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: There's a drip drip drip, but it ain't coming from the Glaciers....

    I wonder if you took a visit to the Himilayas and visited some of those tribes people who live way up the mountian sides and asked if they have noticed their glaciers receding. I wonder if they would agree or they would say they havent really noticed any change or that the weather may actually have even gotten colder.

    Indias own scientist said that the glaciers may not be melting away after all and I figure he has probably visited those mountians more than others.

    Its all propaganda and and hope the whole world can watch and learn what a scam the NWO is trying to pull on us all. How at the moment that the UN should take a breath and examine how deeply the falsified research goes before it votes, it seems they are trying to rush and get the deal done even faster. If I were dealing with another individual and they acted that way after I was warned by someone only seconds before that I should ask for more credentials before I dealt with him, I would figure him for a fraud.

    Ice bergs off New Zealand? Some could say its because the ice caps are melting away. Another could say that the antartic ice cap has been growing over the years and pushing its glaciers out faster as a result of accumulating interior ice pack . Actually there is actual data over the last several years showing the depth of polar ice in Greenland and Antartica actually increased in the interiors instead of decreased.

  16. #16

    Default Re: There's a drip drip drip, but it ain't coming from the Glaciers....

    Quote Originally Posted by Valiant Champion View Post
    I wonder if you took a visit to the Himilayas and visited some of those tribes people who live way up the mountian sides and asked if they have noticed their glaciers receding. I wonder if they would agree or they would say they havent really noticed any change or that the weather may actually have even gotten colder.

    Indias own scientist said that the glaciers may not be melting away after all and I figure he has probably visited those mountians more than others.

    Its all propaganda and and hope the whole world can watch and learn what a scam the NWO is trying to pull on us all. How at the moment that the UN should take a breath and examine how deeply the falsified research goes before it votes, it seems they are trying to rush and get the deal done even faster. If I were dealing with another individual and they acted that way after I was warned by someone only seconds before that I should ask for more credentials before I dealt with him, I would figure him for a fraud.

    Ice bergs off New Zealand? Some could say its because the ice caps are melting away. Another could say that the antartic ice cap has been growing over the years and pushing its glaciers out faster as a result of accumulating interior ice pack . Actually there is actual data over the last several years showing the depth of polar ice in Greenland and Antartica actually increased in the interiors instead of decreased.

    You aren't really aware of what the scientific community talks about...are you?

    P.S. Global Temperatures are not declining. The whole "hide the decline" phrase is bull, the scientific community does not accept that idea, but rather believe 2009 to be the 5th hottest year on record (its not over yet technically).

    Quote Originally Posted by Ænema View Post
    Not a conspiracy - just facts.
    By "facts" I assume you mean "pure speculation". If so, then yes, "just facts".
    Last edited by The spartan; December 06, 2009 at 11:56 PM.
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  17. #17
    Erlinggra's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: There's a drip drip drip, but it ain't coming from the Glaciers....

    Quote Originally Posted by Scipio praeditus View Post
    I'd suggest watching this video if you have any real interest, instead of just wanting to refute any and all conspiracies:


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zOXmJ4jd-8

    Try debunking that.
    Ok, I am 40 minutes in and so far he has mocked Al Gore for 25 minutes and made the claim the medieval warm period was global and warmer than today
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    What can I say? He is wrong and lying

    He then attacks scientists for using the starting point fallacy and then goes on using it himself to “prove” global warming is false by drawing a line from 97 to 06.

    Quote Originally Posted by Valiant Champion View Post
    Actually there is actual data over the last several years showing the depth of polar ice in Greenland and Antartica actually increased in the interiors instead of decreased.
    Only if you draw the line from 2007 the hottest year on record.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    edit:

    One hour in; he now claims that because no articles produce evidence of "catastrophic global CC" the consensus is dead. Of course all of the papers agree with CC just not catastrophic CC

    Apparently sea levels not rising in a single country is evidence that sea levels haven’t risen anywhere


    This is me paraphrasing; but he basically says this "the Himalayas are not melting as long as we ignore the parts that are melting"

    Snore the video is just a parade of all the pseudo scientific/ logical fallacies / self contradictions / straight lies as any other climate denier peace of propaganda and is only watchable if you turn it into a drinking game.
    Last edited by Erlinggra; December 07, 2009 at 12:56 PM.

  18. #18

    Default Re: There's a drip drip drip, but it ain't coming from the Glaciers....

    Ice was growing last year valiant, despite claims by David Barber on national geographic that year that in the next few years we could be free of ice for the first time in history, yet while he was making them absurd claims, the ice infact in grew 30% that year, its a bit contradictory if i do say so myself.

    Its just politically and financially motivated, Cap and Trade, that's what this "global warming" is all about. We just had some of the heaviest snows ever in the US on October 15th-16th, polar bear populations are actually increasing right now. This is just a way to get into our wallets nothing more.

    You know they actually called this "global cooling" ?

    Heres picture and a video to the show the 30% increase.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




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  19. #19

    Default Re: There's a drip drip drip, but it ain't coming from the Glaciers....

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin N View Post
    Ice was growing last year valiant, despite claims by David Barber on national geographic that year that in the next few years we could be free of ice for the first time in history, yet while he was making them absurd claims, the ice infact in grew 30% that year, its a bit contradictory if i do say so myself.

    Its just politically and financially motivated, Cap and Trade, that's what this "global warming" is all about. We just had some of the heaviest snows ever in the US on October 15th-16th, polar bear populations are actually increasing right now. This is just a way to get into our wallets nothing more.

    ...
    Strange for Russia to be so happy that their White Sea shipping lanes are becoming icefree within ten years if current trends continue. This also has tremendous economical effects for Russia because it suddenly opens a whole new dynamic in global trade and access to ressources.

    That the ice is melting in the Artic region is supported by several independant studies but I guess they are all in on it...
    "Sebaceans once had a god called Djancaz-Bru. Six worlds prayed to her. They built her temples, conquered planets. And yet one day she rose up and destroyed all six worlds. And when the last warrior was dying, he said, 'We gave you everything, why did you destroy us?' And she looked down upon him and she whispered, 'Because I can.' "
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  20. #20
    Ahlerich's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: There's a drip drip drip, but it ain't coming from the Glaciers....

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin N View Post
    Ice was growing last year valiant, despite claims by David Barber on national geographic that year that in the next few years we could be free of ice for the first time in history, yet while he was making them absurd claims, the ice infact in grew 30% that year, its a bit contradictory if i do say so myself.

    Its just politically and financially motivated, Cap and Trade, that's what this "global warming" is all about. We just had some of the heaviest snows ever in the US on October 15th-16th, polar bear populations are actually increasing right now. This is just a way to get into our wallets nothing more.

    You know they actually called this "global cooling" ?

    Heres picture and a video to the show the 30% increase.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    great for the polar bears. canada and danmark get ready to seize the ressources in the nothern territories and further north of north america as they will be exposed from the ice soon.
    i am comming from a wine region in south western germany (freiburg) the wine there now has the same grape quality then south western france (bordeaux) used to have. they have to add acid now so the wine doesnt get to heavy. when i was a boy they had to add sugar because the grapes didnt get enoug heat for a good wine.
    some down to earth examples from me :-)

    btw to look at global warming you compare as much data as you have. to look at a 100 year tendency gives you a clue. to compare 2 years doesnt help at all.
    Last edited by Ahlerich; December 07, 2009 at 04:47 AM.

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