Whats with the overhand lances? Was this code left over from RTW?

Did lancers in this era stab like they were using spears? If so I have never read about this method.
It seems that this code is surviving through the entire era. Hope it is historical.... as it refutes every bit of evidence I have ever seen.

I don't think that RTW ever had overhand spears. That was only introduced with mods.

I do think that some people used overhand spears in this time period though. But they never used the tiny little poking sticks seen in game.

Lancers not dropping their weapon and engaging with the Sabre refutes most pieces of evidence as it is...most sources speak of how most lance based charges upon enemy cav only included the front 2 ranks with lance and the rest using their sabers...but alas there is not saber to be found in the game for the mentioned units..

yeah your right arc squad .... RTW did not have it, but it should have!
Now we have the opposite, ETW and NTW have overhand from pre-stirrup days and should not have it....

Lancers not dropping their weapons is a great oversight... the initial lancer charge should be devestating. Then they only have sabre for the remainder of the battle. Much like archers and muskets
run out of ammo, lancers should run out of lances.

I agree with you, Destraex. CA said units will have more abilities. Let's hope the lancers will have the ability to drop lance...

During the Napoleonic Wars many nations fielded horsemen armed with a lance. These were mainly light cavalry as in French, Austrian and Prussian service. The lance allowed the light horsemen to hit hard during the initial attack and use the weapons greater reach to poke at infantry in 'square' formation (although with limited success). Lancers (also known as Uhlans in Prussian and Austrian service) often adopted Polish style dress with the distinctive 'Czapka' cap, as most countries had modeled their Lancer Regiments on those of the Poles. Only the British army was without Lancers during the Napoleonic wars and this was to prove costly when the French used their lancers to good effect during the battle of Waterloo, The British learned from this and by the Crimean war the British army also had lancers. The Russian army had both lancers in the traditional Polish style uniforms and large numbers of irregular light horsemen, the 'Cossacks' who frequently carried a lance along with a variety of other weapons.
http://www.historyofwar.org/napoleon/index.html
Important points are lances :
allow attackers an initial bonus
can attack squares (limited)
British had no lancers
Cossacks had varied weapons including lance = special abilities

Advocates of the lance insisted that it came into its own when horsemen charged opposing cavalry, especially on level ground where the attacks had ample space to maneuver. The frightful impact of a body of lancers moving at twelve to fourteen miles an hour toward the enemy, they reasoned, would always overthrow the adversary. The shock of collision would propel the lance right through the enemy, cause the survivors to flee, and allow the lancers to rally and move back to the safety of their own lines.
Opponents countered that in most engagements cavalry charging against other cavalry was forced to slow its attack once contact was made, and a melee would inevitably result. In that situation, the lancer with his long, cumbersome weapon would be at a considerable disadvantage against an opponent briskly wielding a saber.
http://www.historynet.com/weaponry-lancers.htm

From this lancers should have a very high charge bonus with moral damage howevr affter initial impact rapidly become disadvantaged.
From images of lancers the lancers marched with lance held vertical and charged and fought at the horizontal not above the head. I'm hoping this will be implied in game as well as the chances of lances being broken/dropped in combat then swords drawn. Once a unit has broken off the swords should reform to the rear

Originally Posted by Amos

Opponents countered that in most engagements cavalry charging against other cavalry was forced to slow its attack once contact was made, and a melee would inevitably result. In that situation, the lancer with his long, cumbersome weapon would be at a considerable disadvantage against an opponent briskly wielding a saber.

From a gameplay point of view, or purely theorically weapon vs weapon, that would make sense, but iirc not all the lancers of a units were equiped with lances, just the front ranks and then, they also caried a saber just for this reason...

Originally Posted by Destraex

Did lancers in this era stab like they were using spears? If so I have never read about this method.
It seems that this code is surviving through the entire era. Hope it is historical.... as it refutes every bit of evidence I have ever seen.

LOL, this is a whole new engine.

I remember reading that when charging the lances broke on impact, killing the first row of enemy calvary, then drawing sabres.

Actually Rome Total War DID have overhand lancers. Check out the late bodyguards.

are you sure? Which faction bodyguards had them?

The only time I've ever seen overhand lances in RTW is with Roma Surrectum or RTR.

Dropping lances sounds like a great idea RO!

Originally Posted by brucedickenson

Dropping lances sounds like a great idea RO!

No, sorry. That's not how lances were actually used in this period, and sorry, Amos, but your sources are also at leas partially incorrect.

First of all, the Napoleonic lance isn't couched like a medieval lance, it's used to parry, strike overhand, sweep, etc - and it's much lighter than a medieval lance, being 2.5 vs 5 meters long. So, to the OP, the animations CA is using are correct, or at least a subset of the correct lance drill.

Secondly, the "lance vs. saber at close quarters" issue was discussed at some length on the main ETW historical forum somewhere, and it's debunked that a saber armed trooper has an advantage over a lancer. (This is also dealt with on the Napoleonistyka site.) The two best illustrations of this are:

1) An account by a British lancer officer challenging a British hussar officer to a saber-lance duel to prove that the lance wasn't at a disadvantage. I don't have a reference, it was discussed in the main ETW historical forum.

2) The performance by lancers vs. saber troopers during the Waterloo campaign. (We keep coming back to the Waterloo campaign, as it's one of the best documented of the period.)

In-game, lancers are currently modeled as high-charge, low-melee troops, and that's probably not correct. They should be difficult to train and very effective in melee, particularly cavalry vs. cavalry. The only troopers that historically gave lancers problems were cuirassiers.

the lancers arent charging with them over handed, once then charge an infantry formation they are using the sharpened butts to stab down at the infantry, hence the overhand appearence