They got swords right?

**caralampio** · December 04, 2009, 08:15 PM

Many archers (as well as some javelinmen etc.) have shields and short swords. When they go into melee, they look as any other guy with a sword and shield. My question is, are they in fact, swordsmen at that point? I mean suppose my archer with sword in hand has 3 attack and 7 defense. Is he the equivalent of a dedicated infantry unit with 3 attack and 7 defense? Or are missile units inherently weaker than infantry once in melee?

**Halbard** · December 04, 2009, 09:20 PM

i reckon it is the same, but the ranged units' melee power is always inferior to specific melee units.
so, in conclusion, they are weak swordsmen, when engaging in melee

**Furiøùs** · December 04, 2009, 10:36 PM

Their HP is lower by nature afaik.

**Point Blank** · December 04, 2009, 11:43 PM

The numbers are the numbers, missile units with the same stats as melee units will melee as effectively. In RC missile units melee as 2 levels less than their missile skill level, and also have less morale.

**PerXX** · December 05, 2009, 04:14 AM

There's also the attack delay. Trained infantry usually have a lowerdelay than most ranged troops, I think

**caralampio** · December 05, 2009, 08:26 AM

Originally Posted by Point Blank

The numbers are the numbers, missile units with the same stats as melee units will melee as effectively. In RC missile units melee as 2 levels less than their missile skill level, and also have less morale.

Aha! I play RC, so that's why they don't perform the same. I don't routinely throw missile units into the fray, but sometimes you need to cover a gap. There are a number of missile units with nice melee stats, and I was wondering if they could cover both roles effectively.

**JorisofHolland** · December 05, 2009, 04:23 AM

Charges when they still have ammo always to wrong. They charge, are nearly within range, then stop walking to draw their swords

**Point Blank** · December 05, 2009, 04:26 PM

Some missile units are better in melee, ie javelin units melee at only 1 level less, and a few special units such as handgunners are 'combination' category that overall count as 'superior' but melee and shoot as both 'average'. But generally missile units are at a severe disadvantage in melee, eg your elite Scottish Guard only melees as average, with a morale equal to about a superior melee unit. So they are wasted in melee. Same applies to Horse Archers etc - expect them to be massacred in melee vs real melee cav, whcih is also usually more heavily-armored.

**Double A** · December 06, 2009, 03:04 PM

What about the Danish archers? Don't they do 2 more melee damage than their ranged damage?

I always thought of them as swordsmen with bows, not archers with swords.

**PerXX** · December 07, 2009, 08:23 AM

Originally Posted by Double A

What about the Danish archers? Don't they do 2 more melee damage than their ranged damage?

I always thought of them as swordsmen with bows, not archers with swords.

As far as I remember - no. They don't suffer the normal -2 penalty though, and I believe both their melee and ranged attack are 3.

**Point Blank** · December 08, 2009, 06:30 AM

Danish Archers still melee at 2 levels less than their missile level (average), but I'll consider making them a 'superior' combo unit that shoots and melee's as 'average', but it will raise their cost.

**PerXX** · December 08, 2009, 06:57 AM

Really? They have both 3 melee and ranged attack in my game. Must have edited that myself at some point then..

**Lysimachus** · December 09, 2009, 10:57 AM

But don't archers have those kicking animations?

**meese** · December 09, 2009, 06:27 PM

I think the ones with daggers do, but not those with swords and shields. I might be wrong though.

On a side note, does anybody actually use the norse archers? In my campaign I've taken Winchester and I've just been recruiting longbowmen there and the mercenary Welsh Longbowmen too. Disbanded the four norse archers I had before because they were doing terribly :/ 60 kills compared to 200.

**Lysimachus** · December 10, 2009, 09:31 AM

Well they're a nice melee/missile combination so they're basically toned down Mongol Infantry (which I have to say, are just mass murderers).

**meese** · December 10, 2009, 06:47 PM

When you say toned down you mean a lot worse right?

I'm not sure about no/different sub-mods but with the RR/RC compilation they have 2 missile 2 melee and 11 defence. I suppose they are better than highland archers...

**Point Blank** · December 10, 2009, 08:26 PM

It states in description they only have small hunting bows, they are not really great archers. As I said I'll look at changing their category so their melee level is better than now.