Playing as Late-Era france

[Massive_attack]

Hey guys, i finally decided "what the heck" and am giving france a whirl in late era, i was wondering, do any of you have any good strategies for this faction ? Any particular places i should look to invade, or things i should be doing ? I allied scotland and am trying to get a diplomat to the vatican, and im also building roads and farms. Any advice, battle or campaign map would be nice, as i havent played this nation since vanilla, and that was years ago !

[JorisofHolland]

Toulouse is one place you should invade, and make use of your cavalry. They're great!

[meese]

Dum de dum...I only ever plaeyd it without RR/RC and I remember that was just a steamroller for me..

I guess the safest option is make an alliance with the Spanish factions to protect your south and then the Genoese/HRE as well if possible. If not, no matter, I'd just hold them off and take Ireland/Britain and then smooth sailing from there. Oh and make sure you take Toulouse - it's great for..well..everything. Port, invasion point, defensive stronghold...

Just remember that for the moment, you're roster's pretty..average. Once the voulgiers come out, things start getting very good for you. EDIT: I forgot about the French Feudal Knights/dismounted..you're roster's better than average and as long as you can take London early, establishing better trade, you should be able to beat any army thrown at you if you're adequately prepared.

The only difficulty I'd say with France is that you're somewhat surrounded. An alliance with the Spanish will negate that and save your western coast as well as the south. Once that's alright, and you've got good relations with the Pope, the faction will play itself.

[JorisofHolland]

So you can just quit the game then and return in a few hours, seeing how your faction has took the entire map?
Develop your cities as well as your castlse; once gunpowder becomes available you should start training it immediately.

[meese]

Nah, you might need to check on the armoured horses which have gone rampaging around every few years. God I hate them so much...never had so much trouble with Venice until the stupid lancers...stupid..stupid lancers...RAWR

And yeah, French artillery is overlooked. It's awesome. Grand Bombards to Culverins and Serpentines and Basilisks..AND pistoliers!

Hmm..maybe I'll start a French campaign too

[JorisofHolland]

Has Venice lancers? I never knew that - maybe I should reconsider my opinion of them.

[Sokar Rostau]

I'm in the same sort of situation, haven't played them in well over a year and am currently at about 1375 in an Early Era campaign.

I took four of England's settlements before they became my vassals (leaving them with two). Scotland are my oldest allies... but they're kinda scary given the massive army they have sitting idle. I annihilated HRE and left Denmark with Visby. That's pretty much it as far as Catholics are concerned. I wanted to attack Norway, but they seem to have a very close alliance with Scotland so that might prove disasterous... they have about 35 stacks between them with well over a dozen at Hamburg alone (Scotland clearly has military access). Portugal is also scarily powerful, but I never wanted war with them, just Spain and Aragon... but I can't fight them just yet. Oh, I also wiped out The Moors.

I have been engaged in a long and bloody war with the huge Egyptian empire and the, now smaller but still amazingly powerful, Byzantines for over 100 years. These wars have given me Perfect relations with all Catholic factions (even the ones I'm not allied with)

Lancers, Lancers, Lancers, and more Lancers backed up with Scots Guard and French nobles. That's the theory, anyway, but sadly I have had trouble actually fielding the army I want because it turns out that while Egyptian Royal Mamluks and Byzantine Archonotopoloi always lose against Lancers (and, interestingly enough, the Archonotopoloi quite often lose in melee against Scots Guard too), they always do a lot of damage. They also have a habit of ignoring my infantry and going after my cav. so I don't have much of a choice in fighting them... It all evens out though because the Lancers are devastating against any infantry. I have yet to meet any kind of infantry that can withstand a full frontal charge from a unit of Lancers. It's a thing of beauty to see a dozen of a faction's best infantry, including AP cavalry-killers, disappear in a single charge. Having said that, I've only fought six factions so somewhere there's some regular infantry that will probably counter them (and no, I'm not going to charge pikes).

I sure as hell would like some hints on how to minimise my Lancer losses against those damned Archonotopoloi, though. Lancers can outrun them easily, but then that takes them out of the fight.

[JorisofHolland]

Fight them 2 against 1. Charge with one unit, charge the other one in and retreat the first one. Charge them in again, retreat your second unit. Go on like that and you will beat them with fairly lower casualties.

[meese]

What Joris said or use cheaper cavalry to tie them up and let your lancers go kick some infantry/archers around. By that time, I tend to hire the mercenary german knights which are great cavalry killers as they have high armour and attack with maces for ap.

[Massive_attack]

Thanks, but with regard to possible invasion options, i am unsure if i should attack anyone. There all beloved by Mr.Pope and i reeeeally dont want to be excom'd (the pope favors me as well, im surrounded by greedy nations, and my army is small (so i could make money), and im playing SS 6.1 H/M, so if i give the AI one opening they will jump for it.

Also, i took Toulouse. I wanted Bruges but the scotsmen took it in turn 3, insanely fast.

[JorisofHolland]

Mounted or Dismounted?

[meese]

Mounted, though dismounted do welle nough against infantry.

[JorisofHolland]

I thought so.
Speaking of mercenaries: use them to fill in gaps in your armies. From missing men to units not available to you, they can take any job (if you pick the right one, at least)

[Sokar Rostau]

That's how I normally deal with them. The problem is they are attacking me with as many as eight units of Kataphractoi and Archonotopoloi per stack and they're doing the same thing to me lol. I don't actually lose too many in melee, it's only their charges and the pursuits when I break off to charge when I take casualties. I have a unit of Chivalric Knights that fought all the way from Melilla to Benghazi then on to Greece and I have to retrain them after every battle with the Byzantines because they simply don't last against their cavalry... anything cheaper would dissolve like the Byzantine infantry against my Lancers.

Thanks, but with regard to possible invasion options, i am unsure if i should attack anyone. There all beloved by Mr.Pope and i reeeeally dont want to be excom'd (the pope favors me as well, im surrounded by greedy nations, and my army is small (so i could make money), and im playing SS 6.1 H/M, so if i give the AI one opening they will jump for it.

Also, i took Toulouse. I wanted Bruges but the scotsmen took it in turn 3, insanely fast.

I just let things happen. I was lucky enough that Genoa did some really stupid things and didn't gain a third settlement until they took Palma around Turn 85 so I was able to get all the way to Rebel Milan before HRE attacked Bern which I had just taken off the Rebels. I was also lucky enough to take Bruges and Rennes before England could so when they finally attacked me I just took Caen and ignored them for a while while concentrating on HRE. Barcelona was another piece of luck - the Moors landed and took it off Aragon and blockaded my port at Toulouse in the same Turn, so I took Barcelona off them. My fight with Denmark, which almost got me excommunicated (and DID get Norway excommunicated) was opportunistic, I simply couldn't let Norway get further than Hamburg so I took Magdeberg and Stettin for myself.

One thing I can say for sure is that Aragon wants Toulouse badly (hehe Aragon wants to lose badly... ) and they are one of the Eliminate Faction objectives in the Long Campaign. Unless you can keep excellent relations with them they will attack eventually.

[meese]

Then you'll probably want to hold them off for a bit until you can recruit some pikemen from the cities. Bring noble knights (the dismounted ap ones) too and you'll do fine against the cavalry. If those aren't available anymore, halberdiers from castles or even voulgiers. Cavalry-centric enemies are annoying but I remember having a lot of fun pushing them around with pike armies as scotland then wiping them out with highland nobles...good times...

[Fotchimus]

I played as France in a early era campaign into the late 1200s. What I did was get a marriage alliance with HRE and then later with Genoa as I had no intention of going east... at least while I was starting up. You should try and see if you can buy Bruges from Scotland as it is a real money maker. I had it making me 6,000 with a good general in it. Rennes and Marseille also make quite a bit of cash. Paris is landlocked so that's a good spot to build your educational buildings and churches.

Your first real target should be England. Conquer as much of their land as you can and meet Scotland in the middle. You don't have to get excommunicated over it, just keep your relations with the pope high and take territories and stop when the Pope tells you do, then resume when you are able to again. Keeping a diplomat near Rome is a must for this. By the time England is out of the picture, the Moors should be threatening to overrun Iberia so you can call a crusade on them and start beating the snot out of them. Once you've kicked them out of Iberia you can start taking the remaining Christian territories there if you want. When I did it, I allied with Portugal only and finished off Aragon. Spain was already gone by the Moorish invasion.

Once you've secured Iberia you have several options. What I did was join a crusade and took Antioch and start capturing lands there. This keeps the Pope happy as you aren't fighting fellow Christians and you'll need Jerusalem to win anyway. With Aragon gone, and Jerusalem captured, all you need to win are more territories and certain ones around your start location (Bruges may be one of them I can't remember). If you plan on going east from your start location, consider going into Italy first and take out Genoa.

[Spartan90]

Be wary of taking the Flemish cities of Bruges and Antwerp. The Scots and Norwegians will fight you the entire game for these two settlements, regardless of marriage alliances. Nevertheless, if you can take on both of these factions, definitely grab the two settlements, as they are huge cash cows. Watch all your northern coastal settlements though, being at war with Scotland, Norway and most probably England will leave your trade routes in the North Sea and Baltic few and far between.

In my experience, HRE will generally leave you alone if you leave them alone. Genoa always attacks first, so try and cripple their advancement - take Marseilles, and either attempt at rushing Milan while it's still Rebel, or encourage HRE to do so. Toulouse is the biggest must-have for France. It is the largest stronghold you'll have against the Iberians, and near impossible to take. For a castle, it can make decent maritime income, and its port will probably be your most important in the Mediterranean - primarily for your crusading options. Consider turning Bordeaux into a city, as France will never experience a western invasion from the sea (Ireland generally invades from the north-west, no where near Bordeaux), and Toulouse should be able to handle any invasion from the south.

From experience, I would say the first and most important place to invade would be the British Isles. This is for two reasons - one, because conquering the Isles leaves you with no possible front from the north-west to defend, plus it will open up the trade to the North Sea, and ultimately the Baltic. Two, because Scotland will always invade your Flemish settlements, Ireland will always invade Brittany, and England basically speaks for itself. From here, grab a foothold in Scandinavia to tap the Baltic trade routes. Norway is a good option, as they always attack your Flemish settlements anyway, and you will have complete and utter control of the entire North Sea. From here, the world is your oyster.

[Point Blank]

Remember Archontopoulai arev essentially militia quality, just well-armored. They are poorly-trained and only effective vs inferior units or because of sheer numbers.

[Massive_attack]

Wow, ive had a really good france game so far. Took out england early, resulting in excommunication, but i also siezed belgium and the netherlands, as well as Metz from the HRE, who eagerly signed a peace treaty i handed them just following Heck, i even got Marseilles when i realized Genoa wouldn't be bringing any garrison any time soon. The aragonese and castillians are pains though. Currently focused on killing scotland.

Edit: PS: is it just me or do feudal knights just rip up any infantry in mid game ? In my france game i have seen them kill off armies three times there size just by mircoing them !

[JorisofHolland]

That's why you should micro-manage. It works.