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  1. #1
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    Default Big Brother not in the UK, but in the US...

    If you’re a Sprint customer, you’ll want to pay attention to this:

    A blogger named Christopher Soghoian has uncovered evidence that Sprint handed over customer GPS location data to law enforcement officials, not just once or even a few hundred times, but in millions of instances.

    Soghoian unearthed audio of Paul Taylor, Sprint/Nextel's Electronic Surveillance Manager, talking about how the carrier gave GPS data of its wireless customers to authorities more than 8 million times. Says Soghoian, “The government routinely obtains customer records from ISPs detailing the telephone numbers dialed, text messages, emails and instant messages sent, web pages browsed, the queries submitted to search engines, and geolocation data, detailing exactly where an individual was located at a particular date and time."

    That’s a lot of data, and in Sprint’s case, there’s a huge team to handle them — including three supervisors, 30 techs and 15 contractors, plus 70 other people dedicated to historical surveillance records. That’s a department of about 110 devoted to serving up subscribers’ personal info to the police. (Wow. Who knew the Pin-dropping network even had an electronic surveillance department?)

    If the sheer volume of requests doesn’t surprise you, then maybe the method will: Sprint went the extra step to make it simpler and easier for law enforcement to obtain the data. It created a special web portal last year that serves up location and behavior data 24 hours a day, seven days a week, all without those millions of customers even knowing. This is what’s known. What’s unknown is whether the process requires pesky things, like probable cause, petitions or court orders — you know, lawful process. But regardless, the mere existence of an easy log-in system has naturally spurred on a surge of requests from authorities.

    Obviously, the innocent have nothing to fear, but that’s not really the point. If this easy-access system doesn't require a lawful process — and it doesn't seem like it does, since there's been an increase of requests since its implementation — then privacy watchdogs could take this as a breach of civil liberties and basic rights. So chances are good, really good, that this won’t be the last we hear about this. I’m expecting an uproar and a demand for carrier policy and legislative changes to follow shortly.

    But those of us who are into tech may be more jaded than that. We know how accessible data is, and that something as intangible as privacy can be hard to uphold. But even so, comments made by Taylor, the Electronic Surveillance Manager, still surprise me. He doesn’t seem at all bothered about the privacy issue, and instead, just focuses on the uptick in workload:
    "[M]y major concern is the volume of requests. We have a lot of things that are automated but that's just scratching the surface. One of the things, like with our GPS tool. We turned it on the web interface for law enforcement about one year ago last month, and we just passed 8 million requests. So there is no way on earth my team could have handled 8 million requests from law enforcement, just for GPS alone. So the tool has just really caught on fire with law enforcement. They also love that it is extremely inexpensive to operate and easy, so, just [because of] the sheer volume of requests they anticipate us automating other features, and I just don't know how we'll handle the millions and millions of requests that are going to come in."

    Millions and millions, eh? What a can of worms. If I were the gambling sort, I’d guess that the chances of all those requests having proper legal procedures backing them up are slim to none. And I probably wouldn’t bet that everyone who handles that easily gotten data — from internal staffers to police officers and feds — have completely honest intentions. But these are minor concerns compared to one department’s workload. (Sheesh.)
    http://phonedog.com/cell-phone-resea...ion-times.aspx

    Wow. Completely inexcusable. But let me hear it, how is this a good thing, authority worshipers?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Big Brother not in the UK, but in the US...

    Stav, every cell phone service has cooperated with Homeland Security, the FBI, and the NSA in turning over information about its clients. Your cell phone can actually be used as a microphone even when its turned off. It's pretty easy for them to do. And that's no conspiracy theory.
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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Big Brother not in the UK, but in the US...

    Quote Originally Posted by Future Filmmaker View Post
    Stav, every cell phone service has cooperated with Homeland Security, the FBI, and the NSA in turning over information about its clients. Your cell phone can actually be used as a microphone even when its turned off. It's pretty easy for them to do. And that's no conspiracy theory.
    is that so?
    sources pls

    and doesnt this mean the USA is a police state?
    doesnt this violate human rights?

  4. #4

    Default Re: Big Brother not in the UK, but in the US...

    eh, I really don't care if a government can access my records. I see no problem to it for me. People who do wrong things should be only worried. This whole civil rights tends to get overrated.
    [ Under Patronage of Jom ]
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  5. #5

    Default Re: Big Brother not in the UK, but in the US...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Mov View Post
    eh, I really don't care if a government can access my records. I see no problem to it for me. People who do wrong things should be only worried. This whole civil rights tends to get overrated.
    First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a communist;
    Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist;
    Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew;
    Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak out for me.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Big Brother not in the UK, but in the US...

    Quote Originally Posted by Stavroforos View Post
    No, I have no problem with them tracking suspected criminals and terrorists. However, I am simply worried about the potential for abuse.
    Then you might as well not let the cops use guns then. They are TOOLS to be used in the right situations and it's good that the police have them. That's why we need fingerprint and DNA databases; they're perfectly legal and are an immense help to criminal investigations. Plus, they have the added bonus of exonerating innocent people. A number of wrongly convicted individuals have been set free because of DNA databases.

    Don't worry, the Greek right-wing death squads aren't going to come for you.

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  7. #7

    Default Re: Big Brother not in the UK, but in the US...

    I have a problem with the companies giving the fed gov't information about my cell phone records, GPS, etc. (CIA NSA FBI etc)

    I don't have a problem with the companies cooperating with LOCAL Law enforcement as they have better use for it than the feds do. IE: IF you crashed into a ditch they could local you. Or if were murdered they can check your phone records and see if the murder might of called you or when you're last phone call was made, etc. That'd make more of a difference than some gov't bureaucrat eavesdropping on you.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Big Brother not in the UK, but in the US...

    eh, I really don't care if a government can access my records. I see no problem to it for me. People who do wrong things should be only worried. This whole civil rights tends to get overrated.
    And that my friend is why our country has gone to the ^^

    "Only the bad people have need to worry about being caught, i dont care what they do to me as im not doing nothing wrong"

    Im sorry buddy but it doesnt work like that, our forefathers didnt give there lives to the british to see it taken away by the government they created, PERIOD. (Though it looks a little too late now) NEVER GIVE FREEDOM FOR SECURITY, FOR IN THE END YOU SHALL HAVE NEITHER.

    "I may not like what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

    - Voltaire(1694–1778)

  9. #9

    Default Re: Big Brother not in the UK, but in the US...

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin N View Post
    And that my friend is why our country has gone to the ^^

    "Only the bad people have need to worry about being caught, i dont care what they do to me as im not doing nothing wrong"

    Im sorry buddy but it doesnt work like that, our forefathers didnt give there lives to the british to see it taken away by the government they created, PERIOD. (Though it looks a little too late now)
    not my forefathers

    in all seriousness, it is natural in times of distress for people to give away freedom for safety. But, look at the trend of all world government. Governments are getting more powerful and bigger, and people are having less freedoms. It looks like a trend than then may lead to a One World Government (my personal theory on the political future of the world).
    [ Under Patronage of Jom ]
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  10. #10

    Default Re: Big Brother not in the UK, but in the US...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Mov View Post
    not my forefathers

    in all seriousness, it is natural in times of distress for people to give away freedom for safety. But, look at the trend of all world government. Governments are getting more powerful and bigger, and people are having less freedoms. It looks like a trend than then may lead to a One World Government (my personal theory on the political future of the world).
    Well we are heading down that route with the various different unions but we have only recently been giving away freedom for so called security since terrorism was the new in thing, its been incredibly overplayed and overused and we have fallen for it as a people, the vast majority of the western world has giving up the majority of there major civil rights and there no safer than theyve ever been, there too busy with the normal lives of a nanny state to realise it but the countries they grew up in are no longer the same.

    "I may not like what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

    - Voltaire(1694–1778)

  11. #11

    Default Re: Big Brother not in the UK, but in the US...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Mov View Post
    not my forefathers

    in all seriousness, it is natural in times of distress for people to give away freedom for safety. But, look at the trend of all world government. Governments are getting more powerful and bigger, and people are having less freedoms. It looks like a trend than then may lead to a One World Government (my personal theory on the political future of the world).
    It may be natural but usually is not healthy. The reason to be worried is that autocratic system establish themselves through such encroachment strategies and the populations felt and usually completely irrational needs for security (just check the probabilities here) and then you are stuck with it and can't get rid of it without the application of force.

    Most of this data collecting is useless anyway because tons of data are collected but none is responsible or has the infrastructure to actual use them. Now, if you know you need data on a specific person, that's make sense, but this whole random collecting of everything you can get your hands on...
    "Sebaceans once had a god called Djancaz-Bru. Six worlds prayed to her. They built her temples, conquered planets. And yet one day she rose up and destroyed all six worlds. And when the last warrior was dying, he said, 'We gave you everything, why did you destroy us?' And she looked down upon him and she whispered, 'Because I can.' "
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  12. #12

    Default Re: Big Brother not in the UK, but in the US...

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin N View Post
    And that my friend is why our country has gone to the ^^

    "Only the bad people have need to worry about being caught, i dont care what they do to me as im not doing nothing wrong"

    Im sorry buddy but it doesnt work like that, our forefathers didnt give there lives to the british to see it taken away by the government they created, PERIOD. (Though it looks a little too late now) NEVER GIVE FREEDOM FOR SECURITY, FOR IN THE END YOU SHALL HAVE NEITHER.
    I completely agree. Too bad we live in a "free" country. One thing that everyone should learn is that NOTHING IS FREE. Honestly i sometimes think there was more "freedom" in the USSR. This guy is great

  13. #13

    Default Re: Big Brother not in the UK, but in the US...

    eh, I really don't care if a government can access my records. I see no problem to it for me. People who do wrong things should be only worried. This whole civil rights tends to get overrated.
    The problem though, like always, is that if a system is easy to abuse, it eventually will be.

  14. #14
    Pious Agnost's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Big Brother not in the UK, but in the US...

    Sprint handed over customer GPS location data to law enforcement officials


    The important part is underlined and bolded

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    Default Re: Big Brother not in the UK, but in the US...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pious Agnost View Post
    [/U][/B]

    The important part is underlined and bolded
    ...thanks for coming to the party.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Big Brother not in the UK, but in the US...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pious Agnost View Post
    [/U][/B]

    The important part is underlined and bolded
    The police aren't always the good guys.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Big Brother not in the UK, but in the US...

    Thank you for delivering one of your infamous one-liners. I believe this is my first time and I am honoured.

    But here's some more.

    Millions and millions, eh? What a can of worms. If I were the gambling sort, I’d guess that the chances of all those requests having proper legal procedures backing them up are slim to none.
    How do they know? They don't.

    I think there is a time to fear law enforcement capabilities, and this is not one of them.

    What are they gonna do? Watch peoples location for fun?

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    Default Re: Big Brother not in the UK, but in the US...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pious Agnost View Post
    Thank you for delivering one of your infamous one-liners. I believe this is my first time and I am honoured.

    But here's some more.



    How do they know? They don't.

    I think there is a time to fear law enforcement capabilities, and this is not one of them.

    What are they gonna do? Watch peoples location for fun?
    So, you don't mind the government knowing where you are at all times?

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Big Brother not in the UK, but in the US...

    It's a little strange, I'll admit, but why in gods name should I care?

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Big Brother not in the UK, but in the US...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pious Agnost View Post
    It's a little strange, I'll admit, but why in gods name should I care?
    Because you like having a right to privacy.

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