Why respect the rights of others?

[SigniferOne]

Simple. The question is in the title.

[removeduser_487563287433]

There's a poem about it.

[Thanatos]

Simple. The question is in the title.

... because otherwise you get anarchy and horrible dictatorships?

[SigniferOne]

... because otherwise you get anarchy and horrible dictatorships?

Ok but what if you can get away with it without there erupting a general anarchy in the world? Let's say you can kill someone, without anyone ever noticing it or society changing for the worse. Or a person sitting next to you went to the bathroom with his wallet on the table, and if you take it on your way out, the world is not exactly going to explode; so.

horrible dictatorships

Well, are they horrible if you're the dictator?

[Thanatos]

Ok but what if you can get away with it without there erupting a general anarchy in the world? Let's say you can kill someone, without anyone ever noticing it or society changing for the worse. Or a person sitting next to you went to the bathroom with his wallet on the table, and if you take it on your way out, the world is not exactly going to explode; so.



Well, are they horrible if you're the dictator?

This is sounding very Dostoevskyan, what with his Crime and Punishment.

The whole point is that society works on the golden rule. While there are always those who care not for society's laws, and will do as they please, we respect others in the hope that they will reciprocate in turn to us. While something like stealing a person's wallet is small, if something like that becomes actually commonplace due to a lack of apathy regarding respecting others, it does snowball into gradually worse things.

And believe it or not, the life of a dictator is horrible. They may have "power," but at the end of the day, they have the worst life in existence, for they fear everything, and are actually the ones truly being oppressed. I believe Rousseau is correct on this matter, so I'm going with his ideology on this one.

[SigniferOne]

The whole point is that society works on the golden rule. While there are always those who care not for society's laws, and will do as they please, we respect others in the hope that they will reciprocate in turn to us. While something like stealing a person's wallet is small, if something like that becomes actually commonplace due to a lack of apathy regarding respecting others, it does snowball into gradually worse things.

I recognize what you mean in general. However it does not address my specific point in particular. A wallet is laying on the table and its owner has just went to the bathroom. If you take it the world is not going to explode. Since there's no one else around, no one will even notice. Should you? You'll also be extra careful in turn, to make sure that nobody steals your wallet (taking it to the bathroom with you). Why can't you take somebody else's?

And believe it or not, the life of a dictator is horrible. They may have "power," but at the end of the day, they have the worst life in existence, for they fear everything, and are actually the ones truly being oppressed. I believe Rousseau is correct on this matter, so I'm going with his ideology on this one.

You say this out of actual knowledge, or from reading of some authors?

[Thanatos]

I recognize what you mean in general. However it does not address my specific point in particular. A wallet is laying on the table and its owner has just went to the bathroom. If you take it the world is not going to explode. Since there's no one else around, no one will even notice. Should you? You'll also be extra careful in turn, to make sure that nobody steals your wallet (taking it to the bathroom with you). Why can't you take somebody else's?

Well, there is the saying that the true colors of a person comes out when he can do what he wants, under the security that nobody would ever know what he did.

In terms of a practicality (i.e., game theory, with comparing the payoffs of your actions and such), it would be fiscally rewarding to steal the wallet, or to kill the person.

However, I refuse to believe that humans have such modes of operation, and that at least for some people, their personal convictions, stemming from whatever reason, stops them, while others simply won't care.

However, there is also the fact that nothing is ever isolated, and that no action is ever unnoticed. That is wishful thinking, and literally impossible. Everything has a chain reaction. Someone will suffer because of your actions.

You say this out of actual knowledge, or from reading of some authors?

This came from reading several works of philosophers, including those who supported Rousseau's ideals, and those who were against. After some reflection, I came to the conclusion that I agree with Rousseau.

True, this does not come from actual experience since I don't live under a dictator, but I do try to educate myself on this as much as possible. I apologize if this isn't good enough.

Honestly though, I must admit that your line of questioning is a bit worrying for me, Signifer. It's as if you're purposely trying to justify people being some sort of murderer/kleptomaniac hybrid, and to do that, you've created this thread, in order to come up with counter-arguments against any possible opposition. I'm pretty open-minded, but I just want to say that I'm somewhat curious about this whole matter.

[Time Commander Bob]

Because generally society works better when people respect each other's rights as more people are generally happier than if their rights weren't respected.

Ok but what if you can get away with it without there erupting a general anarchy in the world? Let's say you can kill someone, without anyone ever noticing it or society changing for the worse. Or a person sitting next to you went to the bathroom with his wallet on the table, and if you take it on your way out, the world is not exactly going to explode; so.

Yes but if everyone thought that way then society would break down as it sets a bad precedent and thus enable everybody to do so. People will realise their wallets get stolen and that people they know are killed (or even if they don't know they are killed they will know they are at least missing). People don't want to live in fear of what other people will do to them and thus seek to have rights to protect themselves by law.

[Ludicus]

Let's say you can kill someone, without anyone ever noticing it or society changing for the worse.

Interesting.The dilemma of the old mandarin;
The Mandarin (First Appearance) / Eric Hayot, Penn State University

----
Have you read the book (a brilliant novel) "The Mandarin"? The old dilemma that if a person, by causing the death of someone that he doesn't know can get wealth and power.
Amazon.com: The Mandarin and Other Stories (Dedalus European ...

[dogukan]

Why respect the rights of others?
The question would have many different answers depending on the way a person was raised. A nationalist would prefer the interests of his nation over rights of other people. Whereas a person who puts human before everything would always be on side of human rights that are also man made, and is the best available right now although they can certainly be improved.

I "personally" see it as an issue of depth of humans. The deeper they get, the more they question and value human life, they will respect the right of others. But I will never say this is the absolute truth, this is my truth and I believe, or at least wish everyone aws like that. I also believe it is the systems that are enforced on people doing this. People are trying to get stronger and ignoring certain values to survive. But which is more important...for me it's caring about others rather than these interests, and the authority that is taking advantage of it by fooling us with mainly three things.

Money-the concept of being rich
Religion- the idea that other life will be better if you follow certain rules that limit you
State-Patriotism- believing you are serving for the right thing, values like sacrifice for state are considered honorable. I say no, they are not. Although the action might be noble, you are still "fooled" And is no better than any other forgotten person.

These are the biggest BSs of humans have invented for various reasons which are also the main reasons of most of our problems.

I say screw them all...and when I do that, I feel like respecting every right another person has. At least I am aware that I should not do something I do not want to happen to me, to another person.

... because otherwise you get anarchy and horrible dictatorships?

Why do you use the word anarchy as if it is a bad thing? It is just a political term. It's not like a bad thing. It just doesn't work efficiently.

[SigniferOne]

At least I am aware that I should not do something I do not want to happen to me, to another person.

Why do you think that whatever you do to others will always necessarily happen to you?

Yes but if everyone thought that way then society would break down as it sets a bad precedent...

Fine, let's teach them that one shouldn't take people's wallets. Why shouldn't you?

[Playfishpaste]

Because god said to.

[Boyar Son]

Because god said to.

Good enough for me.

[ivan_the_terrible]

Why do you think that whatever you do to others will always necessarily happen to you?

It is likely to, since everyone else would be acting in the same manner.

[barbarossa pasha]

Well there are lots of times when people do not respect the rights of others, those that do have likely been successfully inculcated within a society that has adopted the respect of people's rights as a way of maintaining civility and stability. When people respect other's rights there is an expectation that their own rights will be respected in turn.

Let's say you can kill someone, without anyone ever noticing it or society changing for the worse. Or a person sitting next to you went to the bathroom with his wallet on the table, and if you take it on your way out

Well, if I actually had the desire to kill someone, and a situation like that presented itself I likely would kill them, or at least try to. Even without dire - as in civilization-destroying - consequences, people resort to theft quite regularly in our society. It is probably a balance, if I were poor and my life was a daily struggle for survival I would probably be more inclined to steal the wallet than not, especially if the other person was a stranger and there was no chance of being caught. Fortunately, I'm not in that position, so for me the risk of getting caught and humiliated or the trouble and concern I would be imposing on another are simply not worth the minuscule material gain.

Then if there is a general subconscious recognition that stable society and your own personal safety hinges on the mutual respect of rights, there is likely to be greater respect for them. If no such sense exists, people are less likely to respect them.

[SigniferOne]

Playfishpaste, you're an atheist, so thanks for a non-answer. I'm still waiting for something cogent.

[Playfishpaste]

Playfishpaste, you're an atheist, so thanks for a non-answer. I'm still waiting for something cogent.

Your question is akin to asking "Why pursue what makes you happy?" or "why not kill yourself?"

There is no real answer to either of those questions. If you think there is any solid answer anyone has then you are factually wrong.

My personal answer is because I enjoy respecting the rights of others.

[Helm]

Why would you not want to respect the rights of others should be the question.

[dogukan]

Why would you not want to respect the rights of others should be the question.

this is a discussion about morals...everything we do is questionable on this platform. Even our absolute truths....

And signifierone, my brain hurts trying to understand the question you asked me

[The Devil's Sergeant]

A false question. People do not respect each others rights all the time in ways that are not criminal in the least. In fact one could argue that politics is a continual excerise in infringing on one person or another's rights.