I'm loosing my hair because of that old man in Rome!
As a catholic faction if feels like I have a boss that's just sleeping in the next room. If I make too much noise he'll wake up and yell at me to keep it down. Too many times I've been on the verge of annihilating a faction or launching an strong offensive or taking a very desirable settlement when that bloody Pope would send his bloody cease or desist order!
How do you guys contend with the Pontifex Invictus?
Re: I'm loosing my hair because of that old man in Rome!
I usually give him donations so to keep my Papal standings high. When it is high I usually get messages where I would only lose Papal standings instead of getting excommunicated.
Civis
Re: I'm loosing my hair because of that old man in Rome!
Well for me I like to stay in the Church as much as I can. However if im on the verge of destroying a long time enemy, I go for the kill and deal with the consequences later(usually im lucky and either my leader or the Pope dies within a short time) If I simply desire the region, I may just build up and wait for the mission to complete before I assault. However sometimes waiting is a bad idea. So I guess I just take it on a case by case basis.
Domesticus
Re: I'm loosing my hair because of that old man in Rome!
Carry on and assault. It's more fun trying to stay alive with all of Christendom trying to attack you.
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Re: I'm loosing my hair because of that old man in Rome!
For the catholic factions that want to war against their fellow catholics, in SS6.1 it seems the AI gets itself excomm'd almost regularly. It's my experience that at any one time there is typically a half dozen factions excomm'd at any one time.Originally Posted by caspian
Be a good catholic and choose your enemies among those of the pope.
I started a short Norway campaign with the idea to do things a bit different than my long campaign. I decided to rush Arhus off the first turn, and strike a blow by grabbing the Danes most advanced settlement. Having grabbed Arhus, I attacked a straggling Dane unit, and the following turn I got the C&D order. While waiting for the Pope to lift the C&D, I sent troops over to rebel Skara. It seems that the Danes got the same C&D order as on the following turn, the Danes blockaded the Arhus port, and got excomm'd. Seizing the opportunity, I launched a strike on the lightly defended Roskilde (seems the bulk of the Danish troops went after Hamburg), and eventually grabbed Lund.
With a favorable opinion from the Pope, you can almost pick and choose crusade targets from some of the excomm'd factions.
I've found on occassion that the Pope will be very quick in calling for a stop to the bloodshed. Even with a high rating, I got the C&D for a strike on Barcelona, even though Castile-Leon started the war. The C&D came after a Seige and assault on the same turn with trebuchets, and bombards.
Campidoctor
Re: I'm loosing my hair because of that old man in Rome!
I take Rome but leave any armies not in the city. Then I have my diplomat make peace and become his ally. His armies then will help defend my borders at no cost to me!
I will give him 1000 florins per turn to keep my relations perfect with him. Then he doesn't care what I do
Miles
Re: I'm loosing my hair because of that old man in Rome!
In my current French campaign I have Perfect relations with every Catholic faction, despite being four times the size of my nearest Catholic competitor.
Everyone is at war with Egypt and most are at war with Byzantium, both of which are superpowers. I attacked the Moors after being told by the Pope to leave Denmark alone, they were down to Visby anyway so I let them be (and Visby has had two stacks from Novgorod and one from Norway camping out for about 50 years now). After making peace with Denmark my King personally took everything in North Africa from Melilla to Benghazi (Portugal has one of the biggest armies in the world so I let them take Fes and Marrakesh... and spent about 20000 Florins begging them for an Alliance after they broke off over the Denmark incident). After taking Benghazi he took Corinth and Athens. Then he built up two new armies, one for Damietta and an upgraded one for Greece. Every time I have fought Byzantine or Egyptian forces I have got a Relations Improved message and it only takes 3-4 battles to give me Perfect Relations with everyone, including England, my Vassals for over 100 years. Even the Castilians like me and we haven't been allied for 100 years. Interestingly, I have executed at least 90% of all prisoners and sacked a couple of settlements and none of the Catholics seem to care.
The moral of the story is, slaughtering blasphemers makes Pappy a happy chappy.
Last edited by Sokar Rostau; December 03, 2009 at 03:50 AM.
I'm currently playing as England, and after hammering the Scots the Pope went medieval on my ass and booted me out of the God club. Next thing I know, I have dirty foreigners landing on my shores from wierd and far-flung countries. - Sargon_of_Akkad
Primicerius
Re: I'm loosing my hair because of that old man in Rome!
You're wrong on that: no one cares if you excecute or sack, but your reputation goes down; which will result in everyone hating you over a very long time. But if you have enough allies, your reputation will stay above zero most of time.
The moral of the story is: fighting blasphemers makes the Papacy happy and fighthing a common foe makes your allies happy.
The Enemy of Human Souls
Sat grieving at the cost of coals;
For Hell had been annexed of late,
And was a sovereign Southern State.
Re: I'm loosing my hair because of that old man in Rome!
I take a different approach entirely. I never give the Pope money, and never (if I can help it) lose a valuable cardinal in a papal election (elect a cardinal from another faction).
To avoid papal orders to stop attacking a catholic, just be aware of when those orders come: 1) Pope never orders you to stop attacking an excommunicated faction, so always be aware of which factions are excom and beat on them first (be aware that if you kill their faction leader they will reconcile with Pope at start of next turn). 2) Pope will order you to stop attacking a catholic faction only AFTER you have taken a province from it. So, declare war, take 2-4 provinces and have a diplo handy to get a ceasefire all on the same turn. Take an extra turn or two to prepare your backstab if necessary.
Advantages of this are numerous: 1) Pope is always a turn late, threat of excom meaningless if you just got a ceasefire and are moving on. 2) You really don't need to deal with AI field armies if you don't want to, just bypass and assault cities/castles. 3) AI doesn't have any time at all to respond, so if you have weakly defended provinces that could be lost in a drawn out war, they'll be safe: you get a ceasefire before AI can make a move 4) Any casualties sustained can be replaced while at peace, as you move your armies on to the next target. 5) The AI will usually PAY YOU for the ceasefire
Depending on the size of an AI faction, I'll take them out with 1-4 separate wars, attacking nearby factions in sequence (eg. take a couple provinces from Aragon, ceasefire, a couple from Spain, ceasefire, then Portugal, then finish off Aragon, etc). Crusade availability is usually first determinant of target, then catholic factions that are excom, otherwise convenience and vulnerability. Use your fleets to ferry your armies, often you can take two provinces in a turn with a single army. Avoid your enemy's main strength - pick off what's vulnerable, make peace asap, reorganize your forces and move to next target.
If something goes wrong, and the Pope threatens you with excom if you don't stop attacking, get a ceasefire and move your armies to another target. Otherwise you're playing defense until the mission expires, which is something you should never do.
Do it now.
Re: I'm loosing my hair because of that old man in Rome!
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
1. Always have a diplomat in Rome. Unless you take Rome and relocate the Pope. Edit: Always maintain a diplomat at the Vatican...
2. Bribery - at first $100 per turn X 10 turns. Increase to $200 per turn X 10 turns when the money's there. Always maintain eight crosses or higher so you can call crusades and be first on the Cardinal to be list. To bump up your rank $700 one time donation or renew your per turn tribute {change tribute}.
3. Don't forget to buy an alliance with him. If you have SS6.2 keeping an alliance will be a bugger...
4. Even if you get excommunicated $ Green Stuff $ will return you to being the Pontiff's favorite son...
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Campidoctor
Re: I'm loosing my hair because of that old man in Rome!
When the pope pisses you off, "deal with him". Giving them money is just a waste of money you could be using to get more troops for more land. Don't listen to te Pope. Go to war with the Papacy.
Got nothing...
Re: I'm loosing my hair because of that old man in Rome!
Ah..I do both. I've taken to giving him money to keep relations at perfect and that means I can keep my troops elsewhere.
But then when I forget, and he sends an excommunication warning, I just force him into vassalage again. Rome's not really that important anyway - it's just another money making city. And there are plenty around.
Sometimes though, you can't really get relations up fast enough for whatever reason. When that happens, and I really want to fight that faction, I won't pay heed to the pope. He'll die eventually
Semisalis
Re: I'm loosing my hair because of that old man in Rome!
i generally aim to be on good terms with the pope, but say when i get exocommunicated as a result of getting a revenge on an aggressor then i usually throw my toys out the pram and send an assassin or two over to rome to see if i can dick slap the holy father himself...if i am playing as a weaker, more isolated faction then i adopt a 'policy of appeasement...' although Britain adopted this policy with Hitler and that didnt really work... so i usually end up getting impatient and wage total war on all the catholic factions...
Decanus
Re: I'm loosing my hair because of that old man in Rome!
Stack up and fight some muslims. If you have the money send an expendable general to take a muslim region and spread the word of God. Its more fun than just giving the money away, but not as effective!
Praeses
Re: I'm loosing my hair because of that old man in Rome!
Ignore the pope. Most of the time there is small consequences especially as a smaller faction because usually you are at war with your larger neighbors already anyway.
The only time I would strive to avoid excommunication is KoJ or HRE or a faction in similar circumstances to either. IE- surrounded by heretics and Muslims or a large central empire surrounded by Catholic nations on every border which would be fighting you normally already but when you are excommunicated they get very single minded about it and send a fresh stack every turn or two.
The best circumstances are to aggravate a larger opponent into being excommunicated first, call crusade on them so they are forced to defend more, then focus attention on a mid sized neighbor getting excommunicated yourself but having some time to totally eliminate that opponent or reduce their threat and begin repairing relations with pope when the crusade is ended or nearly so. It is easier to take down mid sized opponents than even a larger excommunicated enemy. Sometimes you can even get alliance with the larger neighbor when you are both excommunicated where normally they wouldn't.
Civis
Re: I'm loosing my hair because of that old man in Rome!
Temporary solutions are the best solutions.
Ecumenical Patriarch of the Istvan Appreciation Station
Kingdoms of Heaven! The Crusades as they should be!
Civis
Re: I'm loosing my hair because of that old man in Rome!
Temporary solutions are the best solutions.
Civis
Re: I'm loosing my hair because of that old man in Rome!
The Pope assasination is brilliance. +rep
I handle the pope, according to how i want to play
Chivalry: Be the pope's dog, go on crusades etc.
Dread: Just ignore him, slaghter everyone, and then go for Rome to make myself the boss of Christians
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