Would the Nazis be successful if they welcomed the jews with open arms

[villain4hire]

If Hitler welcomed the jews with open arms and considered them equal and gaved some of them top positions would they had succeeded in WW2. I am saying this because many physicists & jewish civil servants who were working on experimental projects were fired from their posts after Hitler attained power. If he had retained them who knows Germany coulda been the 1st country to build an atomic bomb.

[Gelgoog]

the problem was not lack of man power of ingenuity, it was horrible leadership. Hitler encouraged infighting in all branches because it gave him more power. This meant that they often had many duplicate projects being worked on but because no one communicated lots of resources were wasted. For example getting the navy and air force to work together was a nightmare, often times generals would just plain refuse to help each other out.

So no, a few million more jews would have done nothing to solve the cancerous organizational structure that existed within the german military. If you take hitler out of the equation maybe...but even then maybe not.

[Del Valle]

So no, a few million more jews would have done nothing to solve the cancerous organizational structure that existed within the german military. If you take hitler out of the equation maybe...but even then maybe not.

Taking Hitler out of Nazism is like taking Jesus out of Christianity. Hitler WAS Nazism.

[Gelgoog]

Taking Hitler out of Nazism is like taking Jesus out of Christianity. Hitler WAS Nazism.

What I meant was that hitler as a general was one of the major reasons germany lost the war, but that as a politician he also enabled germany to fight as long as it did.

Had hitler attacked Czechoslovakia instead of absorbing it, he quite possible would have lost the war before gaining much if any territory.

[Del Valle]

What I meant was that hitler as a general was one of the major reasons germany lost the war, but that as a politician he also enabled germany to fight as long as it did.

Had hitler attacked Czechoslovakia instead of absorbing it, he quite possible would have lost the war before gaining much if any territory.

About Hitler as a general, I recently read a book on Germany in WW2 (The Third Reich At War) which put forth the idea that Hitler's general's were indecisive at several crucial events and that Hitler's decisiveness was vital. Granted, Hitler was militarily incompetent as shown by the above fact, but he did have some moments of good strategic thinking.

[Mangalore]

About Hitler as a general, I recently read a book on Germany in WW2 (The Third Reich At War) which put forth the idea that Hitler's general's were indecisive at several crucial events and that Hitler's decisiveness was vital. Granted, Hitler was militarily incompetent as shown by the above fact, but he did have some moments of good strategic thinking.

He actually did not. He had some moments, those were not necessarily tied to good thinking. And additional thing is that the Wehrmacht was actually not very enthusiastic about fighting France and Britain all over again so they were hesitant in being aggressive and on top of things: HE was their leader. All indeceisiveness on their part was because he established a bad command structure which didn't give the military the kind of clear cut goals they needed to think straight. E.g. when the plans for Barbarossa were drawn up it was never really clear what the real priorities in the invasion were and the command structure got messier as things dragged on.

[Del Valle]

No. It would certainly have helped the Nazi regime if they hadn't killed off so much potential manpower, but regardless the Soviet and American/British tide would have destroyed them in due time.

The scientists I see as being inconsequential as Nazi Germany never really pursued an atomic research program worth speaking of.

[cottontail]

If Hitler welcomed the jews with open arms and considered them equal and gaved some of them top positions would they had succeeded in WW2. I am saying this because many physicists & jewish civil servants who were working on experimental projects were fired from their posts after Hitler attained power. If he had retained them who knows Germany coulda been the 1st country to build an atomic bomb.

But then who would Germany blame for its woes? One of the reasons the Nazis got elected in the first place ( one reasone) was that they blamed Germanies problems not on themselves but another force, Judaism. Of course, they blamed Communism as well, but blame was a major part of Nazi phsycology.

[Ænema]

Good question, I find myself asking this question too.

I think they could of got further and maybe extended the war longer. But I have doubts to the outcome. You know an extra million soldiers on the battlefield ALWAYS helps you out. In fact a lot of Jewish soldiers faught for Germany during WW1, so they certainly loved their country as much as Hitler said that they had betrayed them.

[SorelusImperion]

A more lenient policy towards the Jews was certainly possible (if we use a magic wand to change Hitler's psyche that is) and would have been helpfull though on it's own it would probably not have changed the war. If it means the removal of the racist elements however it might have given Germany a decesive edge against the Soviet Union allowing it to dissect the political system more effectivly by gaining support of the local population. Above all however Hitler would still have had to develope an acceptable working relationship with his Generals.

[Stark of Winterfell]

It would've helped a bit-the Nazis would have had increased manpower and scientific personnel from the Jews of Germany. Not to mention that they wouldn't have used up additional manpower and resources perpetuating the Holocaust. Germany could probably have had a few more divisions worth of troops, and hundreds of thousands more workers from the German Jewish population.
Following this alternate history track of Hitler being rational, what if he was less racist and succeeded in harnessing Poles and Ukrainians to fight the USSR as opposed to brutally occupying them? More manpower and recruits.
However, Nazi Germany's war economy was heavily based on slave labor. So if not from the Jews and Eastern Europeans, where would Hitler have gotten his labor from? Could the Germans have gotten enough production from occupied territories without resorting to extreme oppression, or would the Nazis have had to go to a total war economy on the home front?

[Ahlerich]

what about the bomb? what if einstein didnt have reason to leave.

[Gelgoog]

what about the bomb? what if einstein didnt have reason to leave.

Einstein merely used his clout to inform the US president about the theory and that germany was working on it. He did not take part ( to my knowledge) in the development of the bomb. Its quite likely that had he stayed in germany that the US nuclear project would not have been started.

However Germany would still not have had the raw materials to build a bomb, nor did they have the funding on such a massive scale as the Manhattan project. So while it probably would not have made a difference for the outcome of germany, it would have meant that the US would probably have had to invade Japan and that means the russians would have as well. So the war in the pacific would have lasted another 18-24 months probably. Another 3-5 million people would have died( american casualties during the war would have doubled, and we likely would have likely resorted to chemical warfare against the japanese populace. Japan also would have been divided up like Germany with an democratic southern Japan and a Communist Northern Japan.

[ivan_the_terrible]

Yes, the Jewish contribution to science must not be overlooked. I can't help wondering what kind advancements Germany could have had, if it didn't throw out all the 'Jew Science'...

[Spartacus the Irish]

No. Part of the widespread social appeal of German fascism was it's anti-Semitism. Besides, German fascism was based upon a theory of biological rebirth and supremacy, so it is rather useless arguing that German fascism could have been anything other than anti-Semitic.

[SorelusImperion]

No. Part of the widespread social appeal of German fascism was it's anti-Semitism.

Antisemitism was a secondary element at best when it came to winning the elections and the same goes for the racist and social-darwinist part. What was realy important for the ordinary german citizen were two promises:
1st We will get rid of Versailles (the treaty not the palace)
2nd We will provide you jobs

[Spartacus the Irish]

Antisemitism was a secondary element at best when it came to winning the elections and the same goes for the racist and social-darwinist part.

Notice my use of the word 'Part'. I only mentioned that it provided widespread social appeal, not that it provided the most, or even much, appeal. Perhaps, though, I should have used the word 'broad' rather than 'widespread' to intimate my point with less misunderstanding.

[Hookah Smoking Caterpiller]

This is a silly thread.

[Orko]

Small chance. If they hadn't pursecuted anyone at all it might have helped. that way there would have been less Partisans and no need to send troops to guard the camps and put down Ghetto revolts. But it would hardly have done anything really major.

[Jaketh]

the only thing that could have made the germans win the war is if they waited a few years before starting the war for their badass technology to come into mass production