Advice on horse-archer bridge battles in IJ mod

[ThePianist]

Playing as Christian Rome, I have placed a full stack on the bridge near Sirmium. The Iazyge immediately attacks at the turn.
This is way harder than any other mod, because their horse-archers out-range my foot archers. In fact, my foot archers come under intense arrow fire even from very far away, their horse-archers can fire arrows over the river and then quite some distance. So I am no longer able to put my archers on one side of the bridge (usually the left-side, so as to send arrows into the unshielded side) while having my comitatense units block the exit.
For the first time I have to put my archers as far away from the river as possible, thus behind my comitatense. There is no "area fire" command in RTW/BI/ , so inevitably, the archers will arrow-follow a unit all the way till they go hand-to-hand with my comitatense, which means my archers fire several volleys into my own comitatense, over the course of the battle.

Also, I put my comitatense on shield-wall formation, but the far-ranged horse archers can hit them with arrows from all the way on the other side of the river. As long as the shield wall is perfectly linear, no legionaries fall. But, as soon as the infantry crosses the bridge and go hand to hand with the comitatense, the shield-wall is disrupted, and the horse-archers start killing the legionaries.

The 4 units of comitatense disintegrated within a few minutes. One went to 18 and routed.

I was able to win by losing nearly all my infantry, which means when the next Iazyge stack attacks, I would be unable to hold the line. (so far it looks like all 5 stacks will attack successively).

So, any advice?

Should I just retreat into Sirmium and get sieged by horse-archers? It's much easier to get them in the city streets.
Any advice on bridge battles involving horse-archers in this mod?

[julianus heraclius]

Playing as Christian Rome, I have placed a full stack on the bridge near Sirmium. The Iazyge immediately attacks at the turn.
This is way harder than any other mod, because their horse-archers out-range my foot archers. In fact, my foot archers come under intense arrow fire even from very far away, their horse-archers can fire arrows over the river and then quite some distance. So I am no longer able to put my archers on one side of the bridge (usually the left-side, so as to send arrows into the unshielded side) while having my comitatense units block the exit.
For the first time I have to put my archers as far away from the river as possible, thus behind my comitatense. There is no "area fire" command in RTW/BI/ , so inevitably, the archers will arrow-follow a unit all the way till they go hand-to-hand with my comitatense, which means my archers fire several volleys into my own comitatense, over the course of the battle.

Also, I put my comitatense on shield-wall formation, but the far-ranged horse archers can hit them with arrows from all the way on the other side of the river. As long as the shield wall is perfectly linear, no legionaries fall. But, as soon as the infantry crosses the bridge and go hand to hand with the comitatense, the shield-wall is disrupted, and the horse-archers start killing the legionaries.

The 4 units of comitatense disintegrated within a few minutes. One went to 18 and routed.

I was able to win by losing nearly all my infantry, which means when the next Iazyge stack attacks, I would be unable to hold the line. (so far it looks like all 5 stacks will attack successively).

So, any advice?

Should I just retreat into Sirmium and get sieged by horse-archers? It's much easier to get them in the city streets.
Any advice on bridge battles involving horse-archers in this mod?

I'm curious as to which patch you are playing with as the latest patch has all horse archer ranges well below that of foot-archers.

[ThePianist]

I am playing the beta 3.0 downloaded from here
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=126462

(and my two posts weren't related, lol)

Is there a new patch to the beta 3.0?
I really like your mod, by the way.

Also, the only way I won bridge battles vs numerous stacks, was by placing my legionaries (or other heavy infantry) in a slightly diagonal line, facing left. Then I place my archers also on the left. That way their arrows will go into the flanks and even rear of the enemy units without hitting my legionaries. It is no longer possible to place archers near the river on the left side. Since you are much more expert at RTW/IJ, how do you fight a bridge battle, with the current stats?

[ThePianist]

Sorry, I only now see the threads about the patches (patch 3, patch 4...)

[julianus heraclius]

I am playing the beta 3.0 downloaded from here
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=126462

(and my two posts weren't related, lol)

Is there a new patch to the beta 3.0?
I really like your mod, by the way.

Also, the only way I won bridge battles vs numerous stacks, was by placing my legionaries (or other heavy infantry) in a slightly diagonal line, facing left. Then I place my archers also on the left. That way their arrows will go into the flanks and even rear of the enemy units without hitting my legionaries. It is no longer possible to place archers near the river on the left side. Since you are much more expert at RTW/IJ, how do you fight a bridge battle, with the current stats?

I must apologise. Yes Iazyges Horse Archers have a range of 140 metres compared to limitanei archers of 142.5m.

Comitatensis/Palatinae Archers have a longer range of 170 metres.

So one option is to recruit filed army sagitarii if possible. Another option is to allow the Iazyges to attack you. Then when you fight the battle they will attempt to attack you. Iazyge Cataphracts and Lancers will fire then charge. Only their horse archers will hold back.

Once they attack, they are generally no match for heavy infantry. Also screening your heavy troops with light troops will preserve them for the heavy fighting.

Hope this helps and I'm glad you are enjoying the mod.

Cheers

[Valentinian Victor]

I must apologise. Yes Iazyges Horse Archers have a range of 140 metres compared to limitanei archers of 142.5m.

Comitatensis/Palatinae Archers have a longer range of 170 metres.

So one option is to recruit filed army sagitarii if possible. Another option is to allow the Iazyges to attack you. Then when you fight the battle they will attempt to attack you. Iazyge Cataphracts and Lancers will fire then charge. Only their horse archers will hold back.

Once they attack, they are generally no match for heavy infantry. Also screening your heavy troops with light troops will preserve them for the heavy fighting.

Hope this helps and I'm glad you are enjoying the mod.

Cheers

Remember, new evidence has suggested that horse archery range was very much shorter than previously thought. Those who 'shower shot' would have fired from no more than 50 to 60 meters, light horse archers such as Parthians and Huns would have fired point blank at no more than 30 meters and possibly as close as 15 meters, to ensure maximum hits and then using their mounts speed to evade infantry reprisals.

[Anixx]

how to fight with army full of cavalry and horse archers while playing as romans

[Flavius Vegetius Renatus]

I agree with JH partially. Although u can recruit palatine archers or sagittari in the first turn remember that u will go red in money the very next one and u wont be able to replanish your ranks for a while. U will also have greater needs elswhere in the empire where u can spend your money more wisely. Iazyges coming at u in force its probably first couple of turns that u will see full stacks so im assuming your problem lies at the beginning of the game. My advice is u have to deal with what u have, meaning using AVAILABLE troops as best as u can. The way i did it was i built forts on the danube each with one lousy unit to block both quadi and Jazyges buying myself precious time (2-3 turns), then i manned Aquincium and Sirmium with every available infanrty troop i could muster (lots of archers) plus general or 2 and withdrew cavalry to countryside. When either quadi or iazyges would siege either town i would pull my cavalry closer to them to act as reinforcement when the siege commences. this would split their force as part would go after cavalry and the orther half at the city. I destroyed 5-6 stacks of iazyges that way and 2-3 quadi even when my walls were down and unable to repair due to lack of funds. Important thing, inside the city create chokepoints with your crack infantry at important streets always putting light troops infront to take the brunt of attack. remember cavalry sucks in street fighting. Man the walls with archers and some light infantry if towers r involved.
As far as setting your army on the bridges in the beginning of the game, like i said, leaves u to exposed to be outmaneuvered and outgunned plus without money u can't replenish your losses. good luck.

[Anixx]

thanks