High Elf complete strategy: start to finish. For airborne guy

[espadadono]

Great guide I really enjoyed reading it.
I got but one problem, every time I play high elven campaign Eriador gets wiped off the face of middle-earth..
And then I end up with Orcs of gundabad between my coastal towns and imladris, Orcs of the misty mountains to the east of imladris and Isengard to the south of both my coastal towns and imladris.

Should I wage war on the orcs of gundabad to protect the ancestors of arnor?

And 1 more thing, moria always has wayyyy more troops than it shows + they get those balrogs who keep charching like a pack of wild boars..
What I did here was rush my general trough their gate to take the "square". This only worked once though..
Any tips?

[Barsoom]

Actually, Eriador getting wiped is good for you because it gives you the chance to take that territory (that's smack in the middle of your empire and a great location for your capital) without getting into fights with good factions. On condition of course that you're strong enough by that time to defeat OOG. Which you should be. (Sorry if that sounds a bit harsh, but if you haven't built a good empire by this time and have at least taken out either Isengard or OOMM, you're probably going to lose at this point.)

Moria has a garrison script. Attack it with a full stack and sit it out, it takes 9 turns or so but that should be doable if you've crippled their armies before.

[k/t]

Or remove the garrison script.

[airborne guy]

Thanks for the guide, one thing is rohan declared war on me. it really sucked considering they were my long standing ally after 200 turns. Game over. they took all my cities

[SkyTrickster]

Its a good guide, however in my high elves campaign i have to following difficulties: (im around turn 25-30)

On the west i've conquered up till the border with Isengard, and still neutral with them, can't afford another front so I'm basically stuck here now.
Complete focus on the east (Imladis) but the problem there is that i'm both at war with OoTM and OoG and I can only recruit a few elves per 3-4 turns. I'm being constantly attacked by both factions and I can defend, but the attacks dont seem to stop so I can't build a large army to take their city's either. There's no help from Eriador or the dwarfs, since they are getting their asses kicked by OoG aswell.. Seems to be kinda stuck here. The goblins just have massive armies and while defending, i can manage, but on the attack I need way more elfs and I have no good recruiting cities.

[Barsoom]

You have two options. One, move an army from the west across friendly territory to assist. With two armies, you should be able to expand. Two, if that doesn't work, abandon Imladris. It's not worth defending if all it's giving you is a deadlock. Others are expanding while you're stuck so you want to get a move on. You can use that defending stack better elsewhere where you can still expand. In fact, you can conquer while you move, loot, raze buildings, and give away the conquered cities to gain peace with one enemy. An elven army, if it's used well, doesn't lose many men per battle, so it should last long enough to get somewhere useful. I'd move that army southwards through OoMM territory (except Moria to avoid the garrison script), buy off the OoG, and when you're on the Isengard border, attack Isengard from both sides.

[airborne guy]

You have two options. One, move an army from the west across friendly territory to assist. With two armies, you should be able to expand. Two, if that doesn't work, abandon Imladris. It's not worth defending if all it's giving you is a deadlock. Others are expanding while you're stuck so you want to get a move on. You can use that defending stack better elsewhere where you can still expand. In fact, you can conquer while you move, loot, raze buildings, and give away the conquered cities to gain peace with one enemy. An elven army, if it's used well, doesn't lose many men per battle, so it should last long enough to get somewhere useful. I'd move that army southwards through OoMM territory (except Moria to avoid the garrison script), buy off the OoG, and when you're on the Isengard border, attack Isengard from both sides.

Thats a good idea, but sooner or later you will have to face the Dwarves above you, and you wont even be expecting it.

[Numenorian]

Ok, here goes. Playing Massive Overhaul Submod (brilliant, with Corsair Invasion disabled), and a after a few turns I have taken Lunelaith and Eryn Vorn near the coast, now being aggressive towards Isengard because frankly that's where the danger will come from in the future if I don't hit them first.

Here's my query: I'm playing with the Elven Lore submod (louis Lux et al) and have no idea how to access the so-called ancillary settings, which will apparently help me stop the Elves from leaving. I mean, what are they?
I've had the whole "we're buggering off" warning quite a few times and it's limiting my cities' growth. Is it simply a question of doing well from the point of view of the overall faction rankings?

Thanks for any help. Have also posted on MOS forum, just wanted to spread my audience.

Strategically speaking:

Playing HE for the first time now, trying to kill Isengard before they can (ahem) bloom. The slight thing that bothers me as Elves is that playing something as hard as MoS, I really can't afford any big defeats, or any big losses. I'm going to bet everything on a series of small, micro-manageable battles, fighting deep into enemy territory to hit small and isolated detachments. If I can hit Isengard before they properly developed Uruks and Wargs, I'll be in a very strong position. Also, should I stab the Free Peoples in the back or leave them alone, and buy cities off them? Or should I even intervene and send say 6 units to help them in any OoG-related battles? I fear they'll get too easily over-run otherwise.

What do you guys think?

[delra]

I'd both keep buying from them and reconquering what Orcs took until your kingdom is homogenous between Rivendell and the coast. Shame there's no real AOR that'd allow hiring their more elite units - still better make them Elven than keep an AI thorn in your side.

It's also not a bad idea to put some spies in the Dwarven city on the coast and make it rebel (it's far from capital), you don't want border with dwarves where you don't keep garrisons...

[Khales]

I use the diplomatic way to start with the HE ´s. In the West i rush with one Army from Elostirion to Allimir. It´s easy to take even with two Elven Archer units but you can also wait for more recruited Units coming from Elostirion as long as no Eriador Army is near Allimir.

Units from Forlond and Harlond are send via ship to Eryn Vorn und attack with the Army from Allimir Eryn Vorn. After that disband the ship and all units except those for free upkeep.

The Units from Mithlond have to go to Lunelaith. But they don´t have to rush. Wait until reinforcements come from Mithlond, Forlond and Elostirion. As soon as you have 5 units you can attack. So that you are able to also take Nenuial.

With the remaining Units attack Pitkaranta. This is important for the third diplomatic "solution" !

Meanwhile (at Imladris) take 2 or 3 Units and attack the Orc Outpost. Then give it via Diplomat to the OotMM for Ceasfire, Trade Rights und uhm 2000 - 4000 gold or a similar regular tribe. And then there was peace with da mountain orcs...

The Army from the Orc Outpost with some reinforcements from Imladris then go and attack Coldfells (it should be owned by the OoG at that time).

Then one Diplomat trades Pitkarant for an Alliance and some extra cash to the dwarves, so that they have access to the OoG and don´t get bored in the West.

The other diplomat trades Coldfells for ceasefire, trade rights and cash to OoG.

Now you can chill, count the cash und build an Army in Imladris to betray and beginn to attack the OotMM at turn 25 - 30.

If any of the Orcs attack you meanwhile und try to disturb your holidays in Imladris. Just repeat the Orc Outpost or Coldfells attack und again count the cash you will receive...

That´s my economic hitman plan to begin with the HE campaign. Offense leads to chilling defense und extra cash.

[Barsoom]

@Kales: If you can reach Pitkaranta before OoG do, you're incredibly quick. Most of the time I won't even make it to Nenuial before either the Dwarves or Eriador already have it under siege. I've never been able to take Allimir with only two units, so I start off from Elostirion one turn later with reinforcements and I've made it there before Eriador every time. I do form two armies as you say and hit Allimir as well as Lunelaith.
Also, I don't know why you would buy peace with both orc factions if you intend to restart the war a couple of turns later. Strikes me as somewhat gamey. Anyway, in vanilla TATW the High Elves do not start at war with OoG, I'm pretty sure, and I wouldn't start a war just to extort some money. Not in character, in my opinion.

@airborne guy: I've never had a problem with the Dwarves until very late in the game. I buy their Western settlements or I trade them against Orc Outpost, that seems to work. Although I guess that Delra's solution also works.

@Numenorian: I've never played MOS but I understand the elves leaving thing is solved simply by achieving victories and extending your kingdom. HE are capable of scoring great victories without losing many men using archers mostly, I don't think that should be a problem, particularly early on against the orcs. I pause and micromanage in big battles too if I find it hard going. Intercepting small enemy armies is fine but I think taking cities is more effective, so I usually combine my armies to take them as quick as I can.
I agree that Isengard is an early strategic target. You can take out OotMM in an early offensive if you're good at fighting battles, then move on to Isengard. If you want to be even quicker against Isengard you can try to hold Imladris with a half stack or even abandon it for a while. But going against OotMM first gives you a good option to trade settlements with the Dwarves, so I would try that first.
I've seen Eriador go down against OoG before but never so quick that I couldn't finish off either OotMM or Isengard first, or even both. I wouldn't fight Eriador myself, partly because I like to roleplay a little, partly because I don't need another front that early. But I think letting them lose is strategically good for you because you can take that central territory off the OoG afterwards quite easily.

[Khales]

@Kales: If you can reach Pitkaranta before OoG do, you're incredibly quick.

It is owned by the OoG at that time. And i attack and trade it to the dwarves, so that they have better access to the OoG territory. Otherwise they would tend to not attack OoG from that side. And the chance that the dwarves will start a war with Eriador is also lower then, when i have Nenuial. I´m then between them.

And i attack and trade for peace with OoG because i am playing with MOS and have the "Real Alliances" active. When i trade peace with only one of the orcfactions, next turn i will be at war again with them.

Therefore you must not trade peace with both factions if your are not playing with MOS. But the cash. The cash...you know.

And after i´ve done with the OotMM i help Eriador and the Dwarves to beat the OoG. And trade the Orc Outpost down to Moria to the Dwarves, cause otherwise the dwarves tend to start war with Eriador and/or Silvan Elves.

I always try to give the good factions a path to the bad guys, because otherwise they tend to start war with each other.

Then Isengard will hopefully be attacked at mid game from Eriador, the dwarves and myself .

[Numenorian]

@Barsoom: that's great advice, I'm going to follow it, only slight pity is that those OoG douchebags tried to beat me to Hoarwell (west of Rivendell) and attacked me. Needless to say I left none standing, point is now I fear an attack from the North.

[Numenorian]

Small issue: I have taken all of OoMM's mountainous settlements. Yet a full stack has appeared from nowhere (with trolls) near the Mountain Fort, aka the settlement above Moria. Now, having positioned spies everywhere in the surroundings, I can confirm that this army has just popped out of nowhere, there is no way it has been hiding there all along or moved there from somewhere else. Hence my question: this has already happened to me, when I was Gondor and had taken both Minas Morgul and the fort behind it. Is this some sort of balancing/garrison script?

Thanks for any advice...

[Numenorian]

Those little OoMM benders... are no more, apart from a few thieving groups disrupting my troop movement. The Dwarves must LOVE me, I have gifted them Framsburg, Wrakyaburg, the Orc Outpost, Nenuial, and I helped them take Fornost after an OoGG invasion. If those little **** don't keep OoG under control now, there's going to be a problem... Oh, and NONE of them want to give me any of their settlements. Irritating.

Time to hit Isengard. Sure hope my arrows don't bounce off their armour.

[Barsoom]

Started a new HE campaign in 3.1. Sticking with the basic strategy I posted before to see if it still works.

Some things are the same:
- You can still take the orc settlement north of Imladris with your starting army and get back in time to intercept orcsies from the south.
- I was also in time to take Hoarwell. Traded that and the orc fort for Thorin's Halls. The Dwarves were so happy with my offer of trade + alliance that they gave me lots of money.
- You can take Lunelaith with your starting army from Mithlond. You can try to rush Nenuial but it didn't work for me, the Dwarves got there first.
- You can rush Allimir with your army from Elostirion. Reinforce from Harlond by taking its troops aboard and unload just west of Elostirion, if you want the quickest way to get a slightly larger army with a general. Eriador didn't get moving until two turns after I took it.

Some differences:
- Money is a problem. You have to be careful what to build in the beginning. Economic buildup is slower because I'm prioritising my eastern army in Rivendel.
- Don't build armies in the west, you'll get some reinforcements from missions (which will have to go west since you can't switch capitals back and forth anymore) and you don't need that many troops there anyway.
- Move your capital west. You'll earn back the 5000 expense in about 5 turns. IMO Elostirion is the best choice, it won't earn quite as much initially as Mithlond but you don't have to move it again as quickly when you expand south along the coast.
- Not sure if this was actually changed, but the Barrow Downs stayed rebel for quite some time, so Eriador didn't move down to the fort south of it. I took it before Eryn Vorn because it was lightly guarded and I wanted to get there before anyone else did.
- For some reason Lond Daer was also still available. Backtracked to Eryn Vorn first and reinforced from Elostirion (troops from missions), then moved on. That's two more cities in the south, glad I picked Elostirion over Mithlond for my capital.
- You can only build one diplomat initially, in Mithlond. That's OK, I needed one to trade with the Dwarves, but I find it's useful to build up to one in Rivendel. One diplomat moves north: Dwarves for alliance, trade, exchanging cities -> OoG for trade -> SE for trade and alliance -> Dale. The other south: Isengard trade -> Rohan trade + alliance -> Gondor trade + alliance. The good factions payed me for the privilege of allying with me, too.
- Don't let Cirdan look into the palantir, it'll ruin a great governor. Same with the other starting generals. Instead, wait until a general is up for adoption, then authorise him.
- Elrond now has a trait (not sure if he started with it) that makes him stronger against the palantir's corruption. I plan on authorising him once I get my armies to Isengard.

Overall: somewhat better results along the coast, much slower reinforcement in Rivendel and somewhat slower economy.

[Benox]

i think you should add some pictures to the main post, otherwise it looks quite overloaded and makes it annoying to read

[Amph]

I've ran into a brickwall in my High Elf game. By turn 250 I've conquered OotMM, OoG, and Isengard, but Harad have conquered Gondor and are now invading Rohan with about 10 full stacks. Game over.

[Barsoom]

I've ran into a brickwall in my High Elf game. By turn 250 I've conquered OotMM, OoG, and Isengard, but Harad have conquered Gondor and are now invading Rohan with about 10 full stacks. Game over.

Why? You should have enough income to maintain two full stacks. You have only one potential front with Harad and no other enemies (I assume), so 2 stacks should be enough to guard it. There is still a buffer between you and the enemy who should be your ally. Looks like an interesting late-game fight.

One well-developed elven stack can easily beat a Harad stack, then another, and another, before even needing reinforcements. Just as long as they don't combine in battle. Since you have the strategic depth, you can afford to pick your battles. If you take a town, gift it to Rohan. Maybe they'll survive, maybe not, but as long as they last, you shouldn't have to worry about your own settlements.

Also, your ships easily beat theirs. If you have a bit of money to spare, send a half-stack south to raid the coasts. Any town you take, gift it to another good party (or maybe trade it with Eriador if you haven't already consolidated your lands). Umbar has a garrison but every other bit of coast can be raided. Easy pickings and it'll cripple their economy.

[Amph]

Why? You should have enough income to maintain two full stacks. You have only one potential front with Harad and no other enemies (I assume), so 2 stacks should be enough to guard it. There is still a buffer between you and the enemy who should be your ally. Looks like an interesting late-game fight.

One well-developed elven stack can easily beat a Harad stack, then another, and another, before even needing reinforcements. Just as long as they don't combine in battle. Since you have the strategic depth, you can afford to pick your battles. If you take a town, gift it to Rohan. Maybe they'll survive, maybe not, but as long as they last, you shouldn't have to worry about your own settlements.

I'm simply not killing enough. The stack spam is quite obscene. I had an epic battle at the Dunharrow pass where I was trying to break into Gondor (entirely owned by Harad), and wiped out out about six stacks of Harad in a single battle. Despite their huge losses, they replace them too quickly for me to take advantage. Even with an obscene kill ratio, I seem to lose the battle of attrition.

Also, your ships easily beat theirs. If you have a bit of money to spare, send a half-stack south to raid the coasts. Any town you take, gift it to another good party (or maybe trade it with Eriador if you haven't already consolidated your lands). Umbar has a garrison but every other bit of coast can be raided. Easy pickings and it'll cripple their economy.

I've used that tactic as Eriador against a much weaker Harad, but it doesn't do much apart from get you a nice amount of money. Their economy doesn't seem to notice me exterminating and destroying every building in the city either. Giving the regions to an ally never works as they don't have the culture to fortify the regions, and Harad easily retakes them in any case.