guerrilla warfare

in spain the guerrilla warfare had great importance.
the guerrilla attack supply lines only,never fight in battle fields.
CA guerrilla not unit types as combat unit or militia.
the guerrilla is necessary to to represent of abstract form of wear as the cold or the heat,never as combat units,because the guerrilla never was combat units in battle fields classic of the epoch.
in the napoleon totalwar game,if france invades spain,does the france army will have some wear added to represent the guerrilla war?concerning supply lines,troops morale in battle field etc.
is very important this aspect.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiHkA...eature=related

What?

I think he means, that if you invade Spain, the attrition there is worse even because of the guerrillas.

Originally Posted by DeVries

I think he means, that if you invade Spain, the attrition there is worse even because of the guerrillas.

yes.

You should also get high attrition in Russia, too, from Cossack raiders.
But I DON'T want Spain's only unit to be guerillas, that woul seem wrong.

Originally Posted by EmperorBatman999

You should also get high attrition in Russia, too, from Cossack raiders.
But I DON'T want Spain's only unit to be guerillas, that woul seem wrong.

no,this aspect must be abstract not combat units in battle field.
the guerrilla not fight in battle fields is not historical as combat units.
then i agreed with you with attrition in russia with cossack raiders,but the phenomenon of the guerrilla warfare was mas harmfully for the french army that cossacks simple raiders to the rear of the french army in retreat of russia.

Originally Posted by Anibal at portas

no,this aspect must be abstract not combat units in battle field.
the guerrilla not fight in battle fields is not historical as combat units.
then i agreed with you with attrition in russia with cossack raiders,but the phenomenon of the guerrilla warfare was mas harmfully for the french army that cossacks simple raiders to the rear of the french army in retreat of russia.

I was just stating that CA shouldn't follow the stereotype made by Sharpe.
But I agree, it should be difficult to hold Spain and Russia.
The Cossacks and other raiders did pretty much what the guerillas did, harass the enemy at every turn.

Yes, i would like guerrilla warfare as well. I hope it is implemented and is impossible to destroy without converting the population into your favor. The great ability of guerrilla warfare is that they are simple peasants who join the guerrillas, attack and then merge back into the population so you can't find them. You shouldn't be able to attack them on battle but have to convert the population into your favor so the guerrillas lack man power...or kill the whole population like the mongols.

If anything, guerrilla warfare should promote rebellion and force the occupier to place large forces as garrisons. Attrition should be greater which once again would force the occupier to use more men to guard their supply line.

Afterall, even napoleon admitted that the guerrilla warfare in Spain cost him everything, not Russia.

Originally Posted by spanish_emperor

Yes, i would like guerrilla warfare as well. I hope it is implemented and is impossible to destroy without converting the population into your favor. The great ability of guerrilla warfare is that they are simple peasants who join the guerrillas, attack and then merge back into the population so you can't find them. You shouldn't be able to attack them on battle but have to convert the population into your favor so the guerrillas lack man power...or kill the whole population like the mongols.

If anything, guerrilla warfare should promote rebellion and force the occupier to place large forces as garrisons. Attrition should be greater which once again would force the occupier to use more men to guard their supply line.

Afterall, even napoleon admitted that the guerrilla warfare in Spain cost him everything, not Russia.

Hm, Anibal at portas put interesting question and you suggested nice idea here. I could agree with this guerilla warfare conditions in NTW.

Peninsular War and guerilla warfare in Spain was as Napoleons ugly ucler and he lost many men there, but Russia campaign was more than disaster, it ruined Napoleons army and his political affairs. Then Prussia and Austria join with Russia and Napoleon had next big coalition against him. His vassals from Rhine Confederacy run away and he can not counted on German allies. Only Poles, Swiss, Italians and few other small nations gave him some help. Worse that after Russia campaign Napoleon had more enemies while he had not enough his brave veterans. He lost so many men and horses in Russia. Then new French recruits can not win next campaigns, because enemies had many more soldiers.

Napoleon admitted that guerilla in Spain cost him everything, because he did not stop this silly Penninsula war and did not withdraw from Spain before he wnet into Russia. He lost so much men there and then he must fought in bad conditions. It was the road to hell.

We know there will be attrition in NTW, Spain should simply have more of it when trying to occupy. Also increased garrisoning needs for Spanish towns that would indicate the historic greater needs Spain had in tying down troops. When revolt does happen then have a stacks with a mix of regular and irregular forces.

Yes it should come up with one of the messages after the turn is over, saying such and such army has be attacked visiously by guerillas or cossacks on their path. Thus wearing down their supplies and numbers.

Would it not be more fitting for this sort of thing to be determined by player-actions ?
After all, British armies in the field, even in France, didn't suffer this sort of thing, because they largely behaved and didn't 'live off the land';
If the French player decides to play as a human being, why should the populace react so very badly ?
(Especially in the case of the Cossacks - if Bonaparte's men hadn't been so intent on butchering their way to Moscow, they might have found some useful mercenary allies - after all, the Tsar treated most of his subjects like utter dirt.)

Originally Posted by Ataraxie

(Especially in the case of the Cossacks - if Bonaparte's men hadn't been so intent on butchering their way to Moscow, they might have found some useful mercenary allies - after all, the Tsar treated most of his subjects like utter dirt.)

Oh, it was many more complicated. When Napoleon enter in Russia with his biggest Grande Armee in June 1812, Russian army quickly retreated and 'French' advanced so fast. Soon their soldiers found hard living conditions there and so many stragglers made next troubles. Worse still long supply and communication lines were harased by Russians. So more, they laid waste territory as deserted country tactic and Russian peasantry many times run away from their villages with their livestock. French were not intent on butchering, however it was disastrous way to hell. Russian even fired Moscow and many villages. Meanwhile Smolensk and Polotsk were buried too, because Russians fough in these towns and did not want to fought big open battles until to Borodino in September. Napoleons army came to Russia and many disasters happen, then Russians must fought against Napoleon. Tsar can used his subjects and take them into Russian army and even wage 'guerilla' war.

However Napoleon found some useful allies in Russian Empire. Their ally Poles raised some infantry and cavalry regiments there, because Russia partitioned in 1772, 1793, 1795 and destroyed Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth. It was Napoleons big mistake that he did not re-create Polish Kingdom during this campaign and Poles soon lost faith in that he ever gave them freedom back. This way these recruitmen was slowly and did not gave big effects.

Nevetheless Poles formed 75.000 men under arms from Duchy of Warsaw and next 11.000 men in French servise (Vistula Legions, Polish Napoleons Guard Lancers, 7th and 8th lancers rgiment) before this campaign and next few thousands during this campaign and they fought hard even to the end while the others Napoleons allies did not saw reasons to fought for him.

Next error was that he did not listen Prince Poniatowski when he suggest made some actions in Ukraine too. There were better land conditions and lived more people which could be useful even as mercenary allies. French emperor though that he had enough men to destroy Russian army in few big battles in Lithuania, but Russians did not want fought there in the begining.

This way Napolons mistakes, Russian hardcore strategy and cold winter destroyed Grande Armee in the end.

The battle of bailen gain the spanish army, owed partly to that the french army that take part in this battle was scourged by the guerrilla warfares for months and his lines of supplies cut before the battle.
the french army under general dupont found himself isolated,harassed and low supply for months,because guerrilla actions in the andalucia region in the south of spain and the bailen battle was the coup of grace to french army of dupont,13000 french prisoners in this battle of an army of 24000 soldiers,an army defeated in advance by the guerrilla war or as is called today by asymmetric warfare.
this aspect,CA must implement in the napoleon totalwar game in russia and especially in spain.

Originally Posted by Anibal at portas

.
this aspect,CA must implement in the napoleon totalwar game in russia and especially in spain.

And in the Tyrol, where Andreas Hofer led a guerilla war against France and Bavaria.

What I want to see is let certain regions have very high unrest, and rebellion forces should increase with the level of unhappiness. Also rebellions should spread, so if one region is having riots etc, its surrounding regions should get penalties too, making it imperative to put down rebels asap.

In ETW once you got past the pathetic rebels the regions will never rebel again unless you intentionally push them. Even regions like Afghanistan are tamed within a couple of turns, and of course Spain too. Hope NTW will address this.

Maybe the easiest way to do it would be spawning of irregular units in regions with high unrest that aren't worth a cracker on the battlefield and retreat on the campaign map but their ZOC affects the supply routes. This way all regions with high unrest would spawn guerillas, giving Spain and Russia a high resistance to occupation would mean more irregulars.

This system would depend on how CA model the supply system and would work if units out of supply suffer automatic losses.