Rohan just died with 4 generals and 10 provinces left... WTF!!!

**Kilt in the Wind** · November 28, 2009, 10:46 PM

I'm playing Grand Campaign as Gondor v1.3 RR/RC (VH/VH) and am on turn 62. I have spent about half of the game protecting rohan from isengard with armies I really couldn't afford to spare.

Over the gap between turns, when the other factions move, between 61 and 62, Rohan became a rebel faction. So I reloaded end of turn 61 and looked around, they had 4 generals left that I could see with my spies and about 10 provinces.

Then I let the between turns go through really slowly, Rohan fought a couple of battles against Isengard, all of which Rohan won. Then at the start of Mordor's turn Rohan turns rebel. I know there were no Mordor armies in Rohan because they are all hanging around Ithilien fighting me and none have got through.

Any ideas what happened? 'cause I've reloaded 4 times and every time the same thing happens.

I don't want Rohan to die!

**Vaz** · November 28, 2009, 11:04 PM

All Family Members Dead.

**Kilt in the Wind** · November 28, 2009, 11:24 PM

I thought of that, but why did it happen on Mordor's turn... EVERY TIME. I thought maybe if it was an assassin then he'd have to fail some time. But they just kept turning rebel

Edit: One of the Generals was Theodred, isn't he Theoden's son?

**Vaz** · November 28, 2009, 11:33 PM

It's a bug then. Do you have an earlier save game?

Also, what happens if you turn Fow off (open console, and type toggle_fow, repeat to turn Fow back on), and watch the movements.

**Kilt in the Wind** · November 28, 2009, 11:53 PM

I save at the end of every turn, how far back should I go?

Haven't tried turning fow off, i'll give it a shot.

Edit: Guess what, turns out Rohan had taken Malgalad (Dagorlad region) and I didn't know about it cause I couldn't see. Faction leader was in there, Mordor attacked it (no walls so took it in 1 turn). I guess Theodred is not a family member then (He was in Dunharrow).

I'm going to try to trade them a city or two for Malgalad, hopefully that will make their faction leader leave. Even if that gets taken immediately by Mordor it will be worth it.

Thanks Vaz, I'll post my results shortly.

Edit 2: Just traded Lond Angren to Rohan for Malgalad. Theoden buggered off back to Rohan and Mordor didn't attack me. SO then I gave Malgalad to OotMM (only settlement I had a diplomat near except for Helms Deep). That should keep Mordor off my back to the north haha
I did that kind of thing before with Barad Tolfalas. Harad had landed an army who I knew would seige it next turn, so I pulled my army and put them on some ships then gifted Tolfalas to OotMM. Now Harad and OotMM are at war! I love sowing discord among the enemy ranks

**ackrite26** · November 29, 2009, 12:43 AM

I a similar problem. Except all the Kings from Gondor , Rohan and The Silvian Elves died in one turn! I even used toggle_fow to see what was going on but still couldnt find out why.

**Kilt in the Wind** · November 29, 2009, 01:05 AM

That is insane!!! did you just have to deal with it or did you keep going back to try and change things, 'Groundhog day-esque'?

p.s this is my 100th post, yay me

**Myshkin** · November 29, 2009, 03:04 AM

But are you sure you are using TW:Kingdoms v1.5 and TATW v1.3? I am asking, because there is a similar bug occuring only to people who have not patched to 1.5 yet.

**Seleukos_I.** · November 29, 2009, 04:36 AM

Originally Posted by Myshkin

But are you sure you are using TW:Kingdoms v1.5 and TATW v1.3? I am asking, because there is a similar bug occuring only to people who have not patched to 1.5 yet.

This is only for Mordor. The problem is that the family tree is too small so the factions die out very quickly.

**Kilt in the Wind** · November 29, 2009, 03:40 AM

Got all the patches. I think in the end it just the faction tree dying thing, cause rohan gets lots of generals and barely any family members

**Freek** · November 29, 2009, 04:04 AM

I had the same with Rhun the other day. Even though they had about 5 or 6 territories left, they went Rebel when the Dwarves took Rhomen. Now the Dwarves have steamrolled down those territories, they only stopped short of Khand, which they are now battling for with Harad. (Playing as Gondor)

What I didnt understand though, one of their generals was standing right next to Minas Tirith when they went rebel (crusade) but I guess this means he wasn't in the family tree? Or does this happen when both the faction leader & faction heir are killed at the same time?

**Hermes Trismegistos** · November 29, 2009, 05:18 AM

Originally Posted by Freek

What I didnt understand though, one of their generals was standing right next to Minas Tirith when they went rebel (crusade) but I guess this means he wasn't in the family tree? Or does this happen when both the faction leader & faction heir are killed at the same time?

No, I just killed faction leader and heir of Mordor and they were still alive.

**Kilt in the Wind** · November 29, 2009, 04:52 AM

So no other factions have that issue?
I thought the Nazguls respawned when they died, I heard that somewhere...
Or are they classed as Generals and not as Family Members.
Oh also, if Witch King is Faction Leader then he must be a family member right? does that mean he has kids? haha just a funny thought.

**Seleukos_I.** · November 29, 2009, 04:56 AM

No he does not have kids because the orc factions all got the teutonic family tree system, meaning they don't marry and get children. They can only adopt new generals. And NAzgul only respawn in RR/RC or with the "immortal Nazgul"-submod.
In Vanilla you get 3 Nazgul spawned every 50 turns, but I'm not sure if they are family members.

**JorisofHolland** · November 29, 2009, 09:03 AM

For common factions, there are family members (you can see them on your family tree) and generals (available from start or recruited, not sure if that's possible in TATW). For factions like Mordor, that have no family tree, you have to kill all their generals or take all their provinces. The faction leader will be the guy with the most Authority when the former died.