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  1. #1

    Default Questions regarding region-specific units

    Is it possible to make region-specific units able to retrain, but not be made recruitable, in territories that meet their build requirements? For example, it would be nice to be able to replenish a unit of Pelargir Marines in W.Osgiliath but not make them recruitable there. This is the main reason I don't use these great units more often.

    If that's not possible then is there some way to make them regenerate slowly like bodyguard units by editing the EDU?

    Sorry if this has been asked before, I did search before posting.

  2. #2
    Myshkin's Avatar Centenarius
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    Default Re: Questions regarding region-specific units

    Very interesting idea. Sometimes travel distances are ridiculous, this would help sure!

    Maybe ask a question at modding lab how to do it?

    Anyone got an idea?
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  3. #3

    Default Re: Questions regarding region-specific units

    I don't really like this. One of Gondor's main weaknesses is that most units are AOR. This would be nerfed much by this.

  4. #4
    Protestant Knight's Avatar Centenarius
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    Default Re: Questions regarding region-specific units

    Quote Originally Posted by bananas View Post
    Is it possible to make region-specific units able to retrain, but not be made recruitable, in territories that meet their build requirements? For example, it would be nice to be able to replenish a unit of Pelargir Marines in W.Osgiliath but not make them recruitable there. This is the main reason I don't use these great units more often.

    If that's not possible then is there some way to make them regenerate slowly like bodyguard units by editing the EDU?

    Sorry if this has been asked before, I did search before posting.

    I LOVE this idea I was going to put this in the Suggestion Thread, it would be nice so you could only train Warriors of Mithlond in Lindon but could retrian them say in Minas Tirith or any other regon

  5. #5

    Default Re: Questions regarding region-specific units

    It doesn't have to be unbalanced, the unit pool for AOR units outside their own territory could be very slow to refill like some mercenaries are and capped at 1 unit. That would keep the player from having too many of them in a stack so they retain their rarity and at least allow them to stay with an army through several engagements. Of course I have no idea if this is even possible without making them recruitable everywhere.

    Maybe have the AOR units trainable through "embassies", or something more suited to the lore, that you build in order to unlock them at high tier settlements. Or maybe making them count as faction-exclusive mercenaries in the core regions of your empire would alleviate the travel->retrain annoyance. Again, I'm not sure if any of this is possible but it would make for a nice sub-mod.

  6. #6
    Kilt in the Wind's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Questions regarding region-specific units

    Quote Originally Posted by bananas View Post
    Or maybe making them count as faction-exclusive mercenaries in the core regions of your empire would alleviate the travel->retrain annoyance. Again, I'm not sure if any of this is possible but it would make for a nice sub-mod.
    I think the idea you're getting at here is the ability to reinforce an army in the field like you can in ETW. I've always thought that would be a great idea in all the Total War games because it would give you the ability to fight a sustained campaign.

    Does anyone know if copying the script from ETW would work at all? I doubt it would but I have no modding experience so I really don't have a clue.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Questions regarding region-specific units

    Okay, for those of you who liked this idea the method at this link works. I was able to retrain to full strength a unit that wasn't recruitable in that territory.

    Hopefully changing the retraining_slots from 1 to 0.5 in descr_campaign_db (this is required) doesn't mess with anything. I'm not exactly sure what it does... does anyone know if changing this could potentially affect the AI or break the campaign?

    Anyway, this is what it looks like in export_descr_buildings:

    Code:
                    recruit_pool "Marines"  1   0.3   3  0  requires factions { sicily, }  and hidden_resource pelargir and region_religion numenorian 40
                    recruit_pool "Marines"  0.9   0.05   0.9  0  requires factions { sicily, }  and region_religion numenorian 40
    and Pelargir marines are now retrainable at any town guard without showing up as a recruitable unit. They also benefit from free upkeep if there are slots available which hopefully doesn't imbalance anything. First line is the original, second is what makes them recruitable outside their original AOR. Use this method for any units that has a hidden_resource requirement connected to a city or region I guess. This appears to be savegame compatible.

    It's probably a lot more complicated than that so please make backups if you plan on doing this.

    Sorry if this was the wrong forum for this post, it just sort of struck me today when I started to encounter stacks of Mordor's quality troops like olog-hai and black numenoreans without any decent AP units in any condition to fight nearby. Awesome mod btw.
    Last edited by bananas; November 29, 2009 at 01:36 AM.

  8. #8
    Kilt in the Wind's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Questions regarding region-specific units

    That's awesome thanks for the post, i'll give it a shot

  9. #9
    Myshkin's Avatar Centenarius
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    Default Re: Questions regarding region-specific units

    That's awesome!!!!!! This solves 99% of my not enough moving points issue. Retrainable, but not recruitable!

    + rep dude!
    Last edited by Myshkin; November 29, 2009 at 03:25 AM.
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  10. #10
    Myshkin's Avatar Centenarius
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    Default Re: Questions regarding region-specific units

    Hmmm... it didn't work. Has anyone else tried it yet?
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  11. #11

    Default Re: Questions regarding region-specific units

    I'm sorry to hear that. Here's exactly what I did:
    1. changed <retraining_slots uint="1"/> to 0.5 (I assume this is what allows this method to work)
    2. found the first "marine" entry in export_descr_buildings which should be under town_guard
    3. copied and pasted the entire line under the existing one
    Code:
    recruit_pool "Marines"  1   0.3   3  0  requires factions { sicily, }  and hidden_resource pelargir and region_religion numenorian 40
    recruit_pool "Marines"  1   0.3   3  0  requires factions { sicily, }  and hidden_resource pelargir and region_religion numenorian 40
    Code:
    recruit_pool "Marines"  1   0.3   3  0  requires factions { sicily, }  and hidden_resource pelargir and region_religion numenorian 40
    recruit_pool "Marines"  0.9   0.05   0.9  0  requires factions { sicily, }  and region_religion numenorian 40
    and then removed the territory requirement, changed the replenish rates to a much smaller number and maximum units (3) to 0.9 so that a whole unit would never be present.

    Then I started a new campaign, moved the marine unit at pelargir you start off with to attack W.Osgiliath and cheated to win the battle. I built a town guard at Linhir and sent the marines there and a few turns later they were able to retrain. I loaded my original campaign and was able to retrain marines at other town guards as well so I'm pretty sure it's save compatible.

    Edit: So following the first three steps will allow for Pelargir Marines to be retrainable at other territories ONLY if it's a city (not a castle) and if the building there is a town guard and the culture is at least 40. If you want to make them retrainable at other places then you'll have to edit EDB more.

    Since then I've been editing the EDB to allow for all AOR units to retrain and it's working so far for me.

    I'm using the RR/RC mod if that makes a difference. In the link I posted the original poster also had a problem getting this to work which was never resolved though it may have been due to different patches... but that doesn't seem like it could be the problem here. Good luck.
    Last edited by bananas; November 29, 2009 at 06:18 AM.

  12. #12
    Myshkin's Avatar Centenarius
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    Default Re: Questions regarding region-specific units

    Oh... Only did step 1.

    Will they still be recruitable at Pelargir though? What defines which city can recruit them? Isn't the 0.9 affecting all?

    If that works, we should make a little sub-mod. Many people would be interested I guess, in the fully retrainable but not recruitable version of AOR units.

    It's just not fun to move these marines, axemen, blackroots and swans all the way to their mother city... and requires a considerable time on logistics that make no sense.

    Why for example Pelargir cannot send a couple of troops to reinforce a hurt unit?

    Many thanks!
    Last edited by Myshkin; November 29, 2009 at 09:32 AM.
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  13. #13

    Default Re: Questions regarding region-specific units

    This totally defies the sense of AOR units.




  14. #14
    Myshkin's Avatar Centenarius
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    Default Re: Questions regarding region-specific units

    You still need the city to train them. Why not making a sub-mod? Whoever wants it takes it.

    If you want more troops you still have to spawn them at their mother city. The problem I see is Pelargir won't be able to recruit them any more... So this won't work.
    Last edited by Myshkin; November 29, 2009 at 09:36 AM.
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  15. #15

    Default Re: Questions regarding region-specific units

    As far as I know the second line under the original simply allows for other cities with the necessary buildings to retrain them, it doesn't change anything else. They're still recruitable from their native city. That's the way it is in my game, is it that way in yours?

    As for balance, I have the replenishment rate set very low so that if an AOR unit does take heavy casualties they might as well return to their home city to retrain.

  16. #16
    Muffer Nl's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Questions regarding region-specific units

    It ads some realism as the men in the unit that survived could train others. The equipment could also be made if there would be enough examples.


  17. #17
    Myshkin's Avatar Centenarius
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    Default Re: Questions regarding region-specific units

    Gotcha mate! Thank you very much, you are so helpful! Could you please explain to me, what are the four numbers "0.9 0.05 0.9 0"?

    I can guess something for the first three... Percentage of unit available, replenish rate and number of units available?

    Many, many thanks! IT BLOODY WORKS AND IT'S AWESOME! The replenishment rate you suggested is slow, but realistic. You can provide a minimum amount of reinforcements, but not support a large number of AOR units.

    There are some other issues eg I have moded the Swan Knight replenishment pool to be even lower, and I am thinking of adding a secondary prerequisitive -culture. Input from other players would be very useful on this.

    Would you like to make this work a a mini-mod? In my mere opionion, it is something many people will like. I have done the work so far, for Gondor at vanilla 1.3. Would you like to provide support for RR/RR?

    Thanks,
    Mysh
    Last edited by Myshkin; November 29, 2009 at 05:17 PM.
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  18. #18

    Default Re: Questions regarding region-specific units

    Without checking the tutorials too closely I'm pretty sure the first number is the amount of units available once the building is completed, the second number is the replenishment rate (.3 = 30% refilled every turn), and the last is the maximum units of this type ever available at this building. As far as making a mini-mod I'm still unsure what the "retraining_slots" entry actually does and if it could potentially break the AI or something else down the road. Does the AI retrain at all? If so, can this cause the AI to get stuck trying to retrain a unit that isn't able because the unit pool isn't filled?

    These are the units I changed in my EDB from top to bottom (RC/RR mod):
    Swan Knights, Horseguards, rohirrim, Royal Guard, Axemen of Lossarnach, Marines, Warriors of Pinnath Gelin, Corsairs, Dale Woodsmen, Dunlend Woodsmen, Dunlendings, Axemen of Lossarnach, Dol Amroth Men at Arms, Axemen of Erebor, Rhovanion, Dunlending Pikemen, Special Axemen, Dol Amroth Pikemen, Dragonslayers, Greenway Guardsmen, Dismounted Royal Guard, Dismounted Swan Knights, Khazad Guard, Elf Nobel, Dunlending Slayer, Dunlending Levy Archers, Dol Amroth Archers, Corsair Archers, Dunlending Levy Archers, Dunlending Veteran skir, Blackroot Archers, Ithilien Rangers, Athala Rangers, Dunedain Rangers

    There are probably others, these are mainly the units that can only be recruited from one specific area. For units that are tied to unique buildings like the Morannon or the White Tree (Fountain Guard, Black Numenorians, rohirrim archers, Morannon Guard, black guards, Hobbit Archers, Kingsguard, Beorning) I'm pretty sure pasting something like this after each entry for city and castle wall types:

    Code:
                    recruit_pool "Fountain Guard"  0.9   0.03   0.9  1  requires factions { sicily, }  and region_religion numenorian 80
                    recruit_pool "Black Numenorians"  0.9   0.03   0.9  0  requires factions { england, } and region_religion catholic 80
                    recruit_pool "rohirrim archers"  0.9   0.03   0.9  1  requires factions { milan, } and region_religion northmen 80
                    recruit_pool "Morannon Guard"  0.9   0.03   0.9  0  requires factions { england, } and region_religion catholic 80
                    recruit_pool "black guards"  0.9   0.03   0.9  0  requires factions { england, } and region_religion catholic 80
                    recruit_pool "Hobbit Archers"  0.9   0.03   0.9  1  requires factions { turks, }  and region_religion northmen 80
                    recruit_pool "Kingsguard"  0.9   0.03   0.9  1  requires factions { sicily, } and region_religion numenorian 80
                    recruit_pool "Beorning"  0.9   0.03   0.9  1  requires factions { scotland, }  and region_religion northmen 80
    So it would end up looking like this:
    Code:
            wooden_pallisade city requires factions { gondor, northern_european, mesoamerican, middle_eastern, eastern_european, greek, southern_european, } 
            {
                convert_to 1
                capability
                {
                    wall_level 0
                    tower_level 1
                    free_upkeep bonus 2
                    happiness_bonus bonus 2
                    recruitment_slots 1 
    				population_growth_bonus bonus 4 requires factions { gondor, milan, turks, scotland, venice, slave, } and hidden_resource arable
    				population_growth_bonus bonus 3 requires factions { gondor, milan, turks, scotland, venice, slave, } and hidden_resource forest or hidden_resource mountains or hidden_resource desert
    				population_growth_bonus bonus 2 requires factions { gondor, milan, turks, scotland, venice, slave, } and hidden_resource volcanic or hidden_resource mordor_mountains
    				population_growth_bonus bonus 4 requires factions { spain, } and hidden_resource desert
    				population_growth_bonus bonus 3 requires factions { spain, } and hidden_resource arable or hidden_resource volcanic
    				population_growth_bonus bonus 2 requires factions { spain, } and hidden_resource forest or hidden_resource mountains or hidden_resource mordor_mountains
    				population_growth_bonus bonus 2 requires factions { egypt, } and hidden_resource forest or hidden_resource arable
    				population_growth_bonus bonus 1 requires factions { egypt, } and hidden_resource mountains
    				population_growth_bonus bonus 2 requires factions { mongols, } and hidden_resource forest
    				population_growth_bonus bonus 1 requires factions { mongols, } and hidden_resource arable
    				population_growth_bonus bonus 3 requires factions { moors, } and hidden_resource mountains
    				population_growth_bonus bonus 2 requires factions { moors, } and hidden_resource mordor_mountains or hidden_resource arable
    				population_growth_bonus bonus 1 requires factions { moors, } and hidden_resource forest or hidden_resource volcanic or hidden_resource desert
    				population_growth_bonus bonus 5 requires factions { england, } and hidden_resource mordor_mountains or hidden_resource volcanic
    				population_growth_bonus bonus 4 requires factions { england, } and hidden_resource mountains or hidden_resource arable or hidden_resource desert
    				population_growth_bonus bonus 3 requires factions { england, } and hidden_resource forest
    				population_growth_bonus bonus 5 requires factions { france, } and hidden_resource arable or hidden_resource mountains
    				population_growth_bonus bonus 4 requires factions { france, } and hidden_resource mordor_mountains or hidden_resource desert or hidden_resource volcanic
    				population_growth_bonus bonus 3 requires factions { france, } and hidden_resource forest
    				population_growth_bonus bonus 5 requires factions { hre, } and hidden_resource mountains or hidden_resource mordor_mountains
    				population_growth_bonus bonus 4 requires factions { hre, } and hidden_resource arable or hidden_resource volcanic
    				population_growth_bonus bonus 3 requires factions { hre, } and hidden_resource forest or hidden_resource desert
    				recruits_exp_bonus bonus 1 requires event_counter is_the_ai 1 and event_counter difficulty_hard 1
    				recruits_exp_bonus bonus 2 requires event_counter is_the_ai 1 and event_counter difficulty_very_hard 1
    				recruits_morale_bonus bonus 1 requires event_counter is_the_ai 1 and event_counter difficulty_hard 1
    				recruits_morale_bonus bonus 2 requires event_counter is_the_ai 1 and event_counter difficulty_very_hard 1
                    recruit_pool "Fountain Guard"  0.9   0.03   0.9  1  requires factions { sicily, }  and region_religion numenorian 80
                    recruit_pool "Black Numenorians"  0.9   0.03   0.9  0  requires factions { england, } and region_religion catholic 80
                    recruit_pool "rohirrim archers"  0.9   0.03   0.9  1  requires factions { milan, } and region_religion northmen 80
                    recruit_pool "Morannon Guard"  0.9   0.03   0.9  0  requires factions { england, } and region_religion catholic 80
                    recruit_pool "black guards"  0.9   0.03   0.9  0  requires factions { england, } and region_religion catholic 80
                    recruit_pool "Hobbit Archers"  0.9   0.03   0.9  1  requires factions { turks, }  and region_religion northmen 80
                    recruit_pool "Kingsguard"  0.9   0.03   0.9  1  requires factions { sicily, } and region_religion numenorian 80
                    recruit_pool "Beorning"  0.9   0.03   0.9  1  requires factions { scotland, }  and region_religion northmen 80
                }
                material wooden
                construction  2 
                cost  800 
                settlement_min village
                upgrades
                {
                    wooden_wall
                }
            }
    ...might work. I haven't had a chance to test it though so it might explode your game. What this example would do (hopefully) is make these units retrainable (up to a max of 90% losses with 3% refilled per turn) in any city or castle with a culture level of 80%.

    That doesn't sound too imbalanced, I figure if a territory has a high enough culture it signifies that your empire has owned it long enough so that infrastructure is in place to support at least a trickle of reinforcements from other regions.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Questions regarding region-specific units

    I really like the Dwarves but I have yet to use their best units because they're area specific, and I really don't want to cart them back and forth just to retrain them. I've also been wondering about being able to retrain but not recruit them in other places, and now you have found a way to do that.

    I haven't yet played Gondor, but I thought I'd have to go with militias since their good units are all tied to a particular city. As things stand, I don't see any use for 5 units of Dismounted Swan Knights other than guarding Dol Amroth.

    Man, can you imagine the Dwarves being able to retrain the Dragonslayers and the Guards anywhere? Oooh whoo whoo! Professional rapists! I, for one, am very excited about this discovery. It seems to require a lot of work though.

    I really hope this becomes a sub-mod.
    Last edited by k/t; November 29, 2009 at 06:48 PM.

  20. #20
    Myshkin's Avatar Centenarius
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    Default Re: Questions regarding region-specific units

    Quote Originally Posted by k/t View Post
    Man, can you imagine the Dwarves being able to retrain the Dragonslayers and the Guards anywhere? Oooh whoo whoo! Professional rapists! I, for one, am very excited about this discovery. It seems to require a lot of work though.
    Your opponents also will... and the recruitment pool resources are very small. Don't think you can carry an army of them. It will work though with one unit.

    So yes, carrying with you one and maybe two, if you are very careful, AOR units will work. No more though! Hopefully this will partially help with "the map is too big","movement points are not enough" kind of worries as well.
    Last edited by Myshkin; November 29, 2009 at 07:47 PM.
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