Realistic?

[Kilt in the Wind]

Does anyone else find it comic, or even outright hilarious, when people talk about any aspect of the TATW mod as being 'realistic'? Threads like 'best way to kill a troll' where people complain that swords aren't a 'realistic' way and so you should use a spear etc or when people complain about elves dying of old age 'cause it's not 'realistic'. NEWSFLASH PEOPLE: This is the Lord of the Rings, IT ISN'T REALISTIC!

I'm not really cranky at anyone but it thought I would propose a new term: 'pseudo-realism' which I will use so I don't feel ridiculous anymore at contemplating trolls and elven blades as 'realistic'.

I think this approach is a bit more realistic

Thankyou for your time. That is all.

[Jean=A=Luc]

This is such an old and annoying discussion that seems to perpetuate itself to no end. Even though ME is fictional there is still gravity, people still die when stabbed, when the wind blows the tree branches sway. Just because it's a fantasy world doesn't mean that all natural laws and common sense fly out the window.

I don't know of any fictional world that is pure fantasy and 100% alien. There are always at least some (often many) elements of reality present.

[Myshkin]

This is such an old and annoying discussion that seems to perpetuate itself to no end. Even though ME is fictional there is still gravity, people still die when stabbed, when the wind blows the tree branches sway. Just because it's a fantasy world doesn't mean that all natural laws and common sense fly out the window.

I don't know of any fictional world that is pure fantasy and 100% alien. There are always at least some (often many) elements of reality present.

[Kilt in the Wind]

though referring to trolls as 'realistic' still feels a tad silly doesn't it?
So we should refer to such things as death and gravity as realistic, granted. But those other purely Tolkeinian elements cannot really be labelled as such - and therefore are 'pseudo-realistic'

p.s. I thought you would be the first person to comment on the thread. I just thought that comment would read more like: "Idiot. Closed" haha

[Jean=A=Luc]

Trolls may not be real creatures but we can still apply common sense to them, how to best kill them for example. They are very strong and large but still flesh, blood and bone. People have always used long reach weapons to take down large dangerous creatures. From mammoths and sabertooth cats to bears and elephants a spear or bow is always preferable to a short range weapon. For obvious reasons I hope...

As I said, common sense.

[Kilt in the Wind]

Trolls are not flesh, blood, and bone according to tolkein. They are made of stone (though somehow they still have blood, which you only see if you have an elven blade) I made a rather long comment about that in the 'Make trolls cavalry thread' where I had a look at the book and movie scenes in Balin's tomb. Give it a squiz if you like

[Jean=A=Luc]

They are not made of stone, they turn to stone in sunlight and the special Olog-hai breed is said to have skin as strong as stone which may very well be poetic exaggeration. They all still have skin, blood and such, they're organic.

Here: http://www.tuckborough.net/creatures.html#Trolls

They are tough, sure, but the same logic applies.

Imagine if they were literally made of stone. What would you fight them with, a drill?

[Santeri]

...Imagine if they were literally made of stone. What would you fight them with, a drill?

Doesn't paper beat stone?

[Old Hickory]

Doesn't paper beat stone?

Stone flies straight through paper. Dynamite beats stone

[Abyrvalg]

Imagine if they were literally made of stone. What would you fight them with, a drill?

And here anime meets LOTR

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Kilt in the Wind]

I've got a book here, David Day's 'A Guide to Tolkien', says "As Ents were to the substance of wood, so Trolls were to stone."
Another important bit about the light - "If light did fall on them... the armour of their skin grew inwards. Their evil, soulless beings were crushed as they became lumps of lifeless stone." Leads me to think their skin was stone, otherwise their skin growing inwards wouldn't turn them into stone. Make what you will of my source, but it's fairly comprehensive, not expensive either, only 7pound.

The logic of killing them I agree on. If you read the 'make trolls cavalry' comment you will see it is the same. Fight them with elven blades/arrows.

[Kilt in the Wind]

That's the way!

"I've got it" screams Denethor, running through the fountain courtyard of Minas Tirith, on fire, "Paper beats stone!!!"
Fountain Guard looks at Citadel Guard, "Guess we'd better tell Mithradir quickly, they're almost though the gate."

[Kilt in the Wind]

Do you think we could get gates to throw books on the enemy instead of pouring boiling oil.

Gandalf looks over the battlements as every manuscript in the white city is thrown at Grond and the surronding Trolls, seconds later the gateway is blocked by piles of troll corpses while the Witch King screams. Turns to the Citadel Guard, "Well that was a bit of an anticlimax..."

[Muffer Nl]

And as Tolkien described Arda it seemed to me it basicly has the same set of physics that we have...

[Kilt in the Wind]

All I was trying to say was that things which fit into our universe, say a tree, or a sword, or gravity, are 'realistic', but those which don't, say an ent, or a troll, or an elf, are 'pseudo-realistic' and the interaction of 'realistic' objects and 'pseudo-realistic' objects has a 'pseudo-realistic' result.
'Pseudo' meaning:

• (often used in combination) not genuine but having the appearance of; "a pseudo esthete"; "pseudoclassic"
  wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

And I say 'pseudo-realistic' because it feels ridiculous to talk about Trolls, in terms of 'realism', when they fit into the latter basket.

[athanaric]

Actually, Tolkien's world is the most realistic "fantasy world" I know. There is even only very little unexplained "magic" going on. Apart from the existence of creatures such as trolls or orcs or demons, it is almost like our world today. This isn't Harry Potter or World of WarCrack with lots of hocuspocus and little substance. In Middle-Earth, distances are correct, physics are for the most part correct (though the Bridge of Khazad-Dûm scene where Gandalf and the Balrog survive a long distance fall into water leaves one a bit puzzled), army compositions are realistic, the portrayal of nature again is realistic (and wonderfully poetic too). Even the languages/names and their development are very realistic, and this element is often neglected in other works. Tolkien knew his stuff.

I actually find it logical how people here talk about killing trolls etc. Sorry to disagree with you. A troll in Tolkien's creation obeys the laws of physics and can fall to his death or get impaled on a lance, although his (its) existence is of course only pseudo-realistic.

[Smaug]

I think it is quite obvious than when we are talking about realism, we mean internal realism of Tolkien's World and within the context of his works. I think there is nothing silly about it. It's actually a quite normal practice

Especially with Tolkien, it is appropriate to talk about realism, because he put such care in making his world as internally logical as possible. For example Frodo learning cantrips and turning into a mage is not realistic within Tolkien's world

[Kilt in the Wind]

I think it is quite obvious than when we are talking about realism, we mean internal realism of Tolkien's World and within the context of his works. I think there is nothing silly about it. It's actually a quite normal practice

Whether you mean internal realism or not it still sounds ridiculous. That is the point I am making. Also I am deriding it's existence as a normal practice.

I actually find it logical how people here talk about killing trolls etc. Sorry to disagree with you. A troll in Tolkien's creation obeys the laws of physics and can fall to his death or get impaled on a lance, although his (its) existence is of course only pseudo-realistic.

And if you are talking about obeying Tolkien's laws then impaling a troll on a lance is impossible unless it is an elvish lance. Read my long post in 'Make trolls cavalry' or the previous information about their general stone-ness.

[Lordinquisitor]

Whether you mean internal realism or not it still sounds ridiculous. That is the point I am making.

No, it doesn`t.

It`s just an matter of being able to think within the laws of an imagined world. Of course, Tolkiens world is vastly different from ours.. But we have many things that are similiar and that we can compare to it.

[Papine]

It`s just an matter of being able to think within the laws of an imagined world. Of course, Tolkiens world is vastly different from ours.. But we have many things that are similiar and that we can compare to it.

Why are you always saying in "Tolkiens world"?? Tolkien wrote LotR to "create" a mythology for England just like Greek mythology or Norse mythology (or Jew mythology...) He always describe Arda like Earth a VERY LONG time ago, not another plane of existence or a "Fantasy world". The creature he describe is just like when we are talking about angels or cyclops or minotaur. There are not "Fantasy" creature, they are Mythology creature!! Pay respect to the author...