execution traits

**Maxamus** · November 27, 2009, 03:26 PM

hey as HE in my campaign if i have to fight a good faction i either release or ransom the men/dwarves/silvans thats i had to fight, but when ever i fight an evil faction i feel no guilt for executing orcs. lol the last heroic battle (against mordor) i won, i took 1005 prisoners exactly, and with out a second thought executed them. then i see the trait increase and after checking a few other of my best generals i notice that instead o having 8 stars and 4 or 5 respect, they actually start to have dread or very low respect. Honestly why would any good elf or man or dwarf spare an orc? the trait says something like "this man regularly commits genocide after each battle" i just think this shouldn't happen, and for good factions you shouldn't suffer stat decrease for slaughtering orcs. After all, I'm sure everyone remembers helms deep where Aragon shouts "show them no mercy, for you shall receive none"

am i right?

so just let me know your thoughts on this and if this could possibly be changed

**Santeri** · November 27, 2009, 03:38 PM

It think it's possible to change and I might agree with you if you or someone solves some appearing problems:
If good factions don't get dread executing what they will get from it? It can't give chivarly eigther. If it gives nothing where good generals get dread? And where will you get chivarly to your general when you don't have to release prisoners anymore?

**Maxamus** · November 27, 2009, 03:41 PM

you could not get dread from killing evil, but get chivalry if you are fighting good factions and release and dread if you kill good

**TheBromgrev** · November 27, 2009, 03:42 PM

Which version and sub-mods are you using? That has a big impact on how the game plays out.

**Maxamus** · November 27, 2009, 03:46 PM

umm just plain 1.3 no sub mods

**newt** · November 27, 2009, 03:50 PM

I think it's fine the way it is. I pick a few generals to fight evil, and always execute. High dread makes enemies fear you and they will rout faster.

**JorisofHolland** · November 27, 2009, 03:51 PM

I believe there are many mods out there that fix this. If there aren't any, shout at someone and tell him to implent it in his mod.
yes, and chivalry has your guys fight longer. And it gives + 5% governors influence (like dread) and 0.5% growth (unlike dread). Not to start a discussion, but Chivalry is better and my guys should not get it from excecuting Orcs, only from excecuting "evil men", as they are not "evil" really.

**Santeri** · November 27, 2009, 04:08 PM

Maxamus idea could work... And there could be negative diplomatic effect when releasing orcs with good factions. I think it should be also race specific which, dread or chivarly, is easier to get:
Elves: pretty much into chivarly
Good men: slightly easier to get chivarly
Evil men: slightly easier to get dread
Orc: definetly dread
Dwarves: same as they are now because dwarves can be very chivarly but they can also get very greedy.

Edit: @newt: But somebody are playing lore here and don't want to get highly feared good guys. And +population growth is one of the key stradegics in MTW2...

**Vaz** · November 27, 2009, 09:39 PM

Originally Posted by Santeri

Maxamus idea could work... And there could be negative diplomatic effect when releasing orcs with good factions. I think it should be also race specific which, dread or chivarly, is easier to get:
Elves: pretty much into chivarly
Good men: slightly easier to get chivarly
Evil men: slightly easier to get dread
Orc: definetly dread
Dwarves: same as they are now because dwarves can be very chivarly but they can also get very greedy.

Edit: @newt: But somebody are playing lore here and don't want to get highly feared good guys. And +population growth is one of the key stradegics in MTW2...

For Elves, I think Dread should be higher. It means more Public Order, so less rebellions, slower growth rate, which is as it should be, and cause enemies to be scared, of which all are. You can tie in higher morale bonuses for your own troops in addition to the dread.

**Maxamus** · November 27, 2009, 03:56 PM

i totally agree and yeah they are still men, not some messed up creature morgoth madeto over run the world..,.

**newt** · November 27, 2009, 04:03 PM

My guys with dread never sit in a city, they patrol my lands, so pop. bonus from chivalry is meaningless to them

**Kilt in the Wind** · November 27, 2009, 04:11 PM

AFAIK dread increases the law bonus as a governor so the only thing chivalry has over it is the population bonus. Also genocide is genocide, and the people who are gonna be affected by it are the people you've been massacring because they are your enemies and you will keep fighting them and they will keep fleeing because they fear a massacre. Relax, dread isn't all bad.

Listen the Machiavelli:

"Since love and fear can hardly exist together, if we must choose between them, it is far safer to be feared than loved.
Moreover, men are less careful how they offend him who makes himself loved than him who makes himself feared. For love is held by the tie of obligation, which, because men are a sorry breed, is broken on every whisper of private interest; but fear is bound by the apprehension of punishment which never relaxes its grasp."

**Seleukos_I.** · November 27, 2009, 05:44 PM

Like Kili said it has it's advantages and I think that is the reason why it's still in the game.

**Ozzmosis** · November 27, 2009, 05:43 PM

Y'know, whenever I capture orcs and I don't want to execute them with a chivalric general, I just ransom them. 95% of the time they either don't want to or can't afford to pay so I can get rid of them and my guys are no more evil for having massacred 3500 captured orcs (I fight big battles, Dol amroth knight charges work wonders!)

**Maxamus** · November 27, 2009, 09:28 PM

its not loved, its respected and if its between being feared and respected, i'd prefer the second. Such is the nature of the elves, and killing orcs wouldn't have you feared by your people who have a proud history of standing against the darkness. And Santeri, that sounds pretty good

the impression i got from reading about lorewas that harad simply hated gondor, and sided with sauron for that reason so the evil men would have less dread as opposed to orcs. idk about rhun, but im sure they have some beef against dale, lol

**TheBromgrev** · November 28, 2009, 12:20 AM

IIRC, the orcs were terrified of facing elves in combat. In the book RotK, Sam (or the reader, been too long since I've read it) overhears some orcs who think he's an elf, and those orcs are pissing themselves because they *think* Sam is an elf.

**Maxamus** · November 28, 2009, 12:50 AM

i've never had a rebellion and the growth rate shouldnt be much slower its minimal in alot of places for me, anf i've had it decreasing in a few cities until i brought in a good general, and i only read the second and first books

i need to go find rotk im sure i have it. that is a good point about the orcs fearing elves, and mabye some traits like scare enemy units could be added to them if they dont have it, that would be kind of cool

**Muffer Nl** · November 28, 2009, 04:20 AM

IIRC, the orcs were terrified of facing elves in combat. In the book RotK, Sam (or the reader, been too long since I've read it) overhears some orcs who think he's an elf, and those orcs are pissing themselves because they *think* Sam is an elf.

They actually think he is an old, powerfull and well equipped elf prince.

**JorisofHolland** · November 28, 2009, 05:35 AM

And as an elf can easily take on fifteen orcs, they have rights to be scared, even if the elf in question would be noble (which he certainly would be)