Portugal - Discussion Thread

[Geronimo2006]

Thank you! +Rep.

[Salvo]

Do you know how to make the uniform colours change in late-campaign?

Unfortunetly late campaign (we're talking about USA campaign from last chepter played as European faction, right?) uses the same infantry unit as normal campaign, so it's not possible withouet createing new unit

[Geronimo2006]

Terço Auxiliar dos Pretos Fórros wip:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Cabo-Frio pic updated.

Wip of another unit whose name I cannot read on the document Carricanta uploaded. Can someone tell me its name?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Credits to Hellfell (TGOTRE), Toontotalwar (24mbit GB textures) and General Cornwallis (Warcry of the Republic) for Pretos Fórros textures.

[Geronimo2006]

I am just posting some photos I found from 1908 of the uniform of the Portuguese Royal Guard of Archers/Guarda Real dos Archeiros.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Ludicus]

Portuguese Royal Guards, infantry/Cavalry.

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Portuguese Royal Guards:

LEFT: Fusilier, Royal Police Guard, 1804





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[Salvo]

Ludicus, Geronimo2006
Thanks, REPs++

[Geronimo2006]

Salvo, I have good news on Portugal. I have found a website selling the book " The Portuguese Army During the War of Spanish Succession (1704-1715)" by Condray (1992), which appears to the be only detailed source for images on their uniforms at the time. They are selling it for just $5. I have just ordered it and will have more info when I get it.

[carricanta]

Great! but the link doesn´t works... you can obtain information here

http://www.balagan.org.uk/war/war-of...ting-guide.htm

[carricanta]

That´s the correct link

http://onmilitarymatters.com/pages/c...hp?period=1710

[Geronimo2006]

Great! but the link doesn´t works... you can obtain information here

http://www.balagan.org.uk/war/war-of...ting-guide.htm

Thank you Carricanta but Balagan doesn't really go into much detail e.g. what he means by "Primary/Secondary livery". The Condray book is his source so it should tell us more. When it does, I will let you know.

[carricanta]

Wip of another unit whose name I cannot read on the document Carricanta uploaded. Can someone tell me its name?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Credits to Hellfell (TGOTRE), Toontotalwar (24mbit GB textures) and General Cornwallis (Warcry of the Republic) for Pretos Fórros textures.

1786 Rio de Janeiro

Soldado do Terço Auxiliar de Cavallaria... cavalry man

[Geronimo2006]

Thank you Carricanta. I will put him on a horse then.

[KLAssurbanipal]

Thank you. looks great

[Geronimo2006]

Hi KLA. Just posting to say that the book "The Portuguese Army in the War of Spanish Succession" referred to on the Balagan website came today. Unfortunately, all the pictures are in black and white and there aren't many pictures at all. One new piece of info though is that the colours of the uniform cuffs tended to be the same as those of the coat-linings. The pics of uniforms in the book have been seen here already - which a smaller number of exceptions. There is a pic of the Armada/Marines that shows them wearing cross-straps.

Regarding the Portuguese Royal Guard of Archers: before 1728,. they wore Green trimmed with white. Afterwards, they wore red coats trummed with gold.

[Geronimo2006]

Found this pic (in Carricanta's source - thanks) of the Royal Guard of Archers (Left) and then the that of independent Brazil. It tallies with my book which says that after 1728. the uniform became red trimmed with gold.:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[KLAssurbanipal]

Hi KLA. Just posting to say that the book "The Portuguese Army in the War of Spanish Succession" referred to on the Balagan website came today. Unfortunately, all the pictures are in black and white and there aren't many pictures at all. One new piece of info though is that the colours of the uniform cuffs tended to be the same as those of the coat-linings. The pics of uniforms in the book have been seen here already - which a smaller number of exceptions. There is a pic of the Armada/Marines that shows them wearing cross-straps.

Regarding the Portuguese Royal Guard of Archers: before 1728,. they wore Green trimmed with white. Afterwards, they wore red coats trummed with gold.

Found this pic (in Carricanta's source - thanks) of the Royal Guard of Archers (Left) and then the that of independent Brazil. It tallies with my book which says that after 1728. the uniform became red trimmed with gold.:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Geronimo2006]

The book claims there were only 200 men in the Royal Halberdiers/Archers, and that half of them were German. Perhaps not worth having as a unit then.

Below are some WSS and similar Portuguese black-and-white pics:

Armada (Marines) with Officer (1721 - 7 yrs after the war). The Officer is on the Left with the large white wig, with the marine on the right. The book adds that the officer is wearing a sash around his waste that is red and trimmed with gold (belt area). My unit was actually very close, apart from the absence of a wig and decorations:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Next are some other infantry pics below with an officer in 1740. The officer is the second man with the large wig:

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Below are a Fusilier and a Grenadier:

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Lastly, below is a Militiaman from 1710:

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[KLAssurbanipal]

Grest, more please

[Geronimo2006]

I am uploaded a new picture from before 1735 from the book. This is of the Portuguese army on the march. It's a fairly poor illustration but it sortof gives you an idea of the uniforms:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Those are the only pictures of soldiers in the book unfortunately (there are pictures of battle flags though). I think it would be a good idea if the other book (300 Anos de Uniformes Militares do Exército de Portugal (1660-1960)) available in Portugal could be bought because it has watercolours and appears to be the source of Kronoskaf.com's Portuguese uniforms.

Some descriptions from the book I bought called "The Portuguese Army in the War of the Spanish Succession":

By the early 18th century,the uniform was evolving along lines common to European infantry. White-gray had become the commonest coat color, but was not universal. The Tercio na Armada retained green and yellow, and several regiments still wore blue. The following general description is based primarily on the documents provided by Colonel Ferriera Correia:

Headgear: A black round felt hat, with the brim folded up to form a point in front. It could have a ribbon around it. Officers often wore plumes.

Coat: The coat was of wool, cut straight and somewhat full to allow for the handling of the weapon. The color was normally a dirty white (um branco sujo). The sleeves were short and the cuffs very large, with three buttons near the elbow. Ordinarily the shirt sleeves could be seen, but in bad weather (tempo frio ou chuvoso) the cuffs could be rolled down over the hands. The small pockets had a straight flap and three little buttons. The coat linings (forros) were in the livery colors of the colonels. (James Hinds, the translator, suggests that the cuff was likely of the lining color, and that the original coat colors had usually been blue as noted above, but most of the Army was adopting gray for economy reasons).

Cravat: This was a simple length of silk.

Vest: The vest was straight with two pockets and flaps, no belt, and could be colored or with a border.

Shirt: This was a white linen and often silk for officers.

It seems that the colours of the cuffs and linings were the same, and that the colours of both were usually the primary-colours of the coat of arms of the colonels. The book then lists the primary/secondary colours, and says that, where the primary-colour is metallic i.e. gold/silver, that he will leave it to the reader to either reverse the colours or assume silver/gold corresponds to white/yellow. In that context, I think we can assume that - where the primary colour is not metallic, it is the colour of the cuffs/linings of the white-grey uniforms. However, where the secondary-colour/livery is metallic, then the decorations on the officer's uniform might be that colour. This is how the WSS book explains it:

I consulted "Armorio Portugues", published in 1916 by the Archivo Historico Portugues. We know that the old "Tercio de Chavez" wore white trimmed red at Almanza, with gold decorations for officers. Sure enough, a Chavez coat of arms appeareds featuring "vermelho" (a bright scarlet red) with decorations "oiro" (gold)

On that hopeful note I will report the name and colonel's primary and secondary livery colors for known Portuguese regiments. Where the primary color is a metal color (gold or silver), I leave it to the reader to substitute the plain equivalent (yellow or white) or reverse the first two colors. Note that vermillion, a bright scarlet red is the most common livery color of the Portuguese military gentry.

Based on this, I would theorise that the following white-grey coated regiments/tercos had the following distinctions, with at least 10 having red-cuffs/linings. (Interestingly, althought Balagan says its information comes from Condray's book, it differs from it on tne Serpa regiment on whether Green/Gold were the Primary/Secondary colours - Balagan says it's Gold/Green but the WSS book says Green/Gold - so I'm going with the book):

Serpa regiment: Green cuffs/linings (with gold decorations for officers).
Almeida/Olivenca/Castelo de vide/Lagos/Corte Real/Caminha/Porto regiments: Red cuffs/linings (with silver decorations for officers) (Porto regiment described in book and on Balagan site)..
Moura/Chaves/Nova de Moura regiments: Red cuffs/linings (with gold-decorations for officers). This is certain for the Chaves regiment because the book describes it's uniform.
Vasconca (Vasconcelles?): Black cuffs/linings (with silver decorations for officers).
Castel Braco: Blue cuffs/linings (with gold decorations for officers).

That leaves question marks over the other regiments that have a metallic colour as their primary-colour. Below are primary/secondary colours:
(Castro) Conde de Cascais: Silver/blue
Faro (Conde de Vimiero): Silver/Red
(Silva da) Portalegre: Silver/purple
Braganza: Silver/Red
Pinhel (Pinheiro?): Silver/Green
Bras da Silveira: Silver/Red
Conde de Areiras: Silver/Purple

We know nothing about any of the colours worn by these infantry regiments:
Elvas
Peniche
Setubal
Evora
Estremoz
Jeremenha
Conde de Ilha
Silva da Vagos

Applying this rule to the cavalry uniforms, these are my estimates of some of their uniforms (all with white-grey coats, red-cuffs/linings):

(Brito) Conde de Arcos/Dragoons de Pedro Machado/Olivencia (Mello Conde de): Red cuffs/linings (with silver decorations for officers).
Dragoons de Mello da Silva/De Moura/Praca de Moura: red cuffs/linings (with gold decorations for officers).

The cavalry with the metallic (gold/silver) primary-colours are as follows, meaning we can't be sure which colour was for cuffs/linings/decorations. Below are primary/secondary colours:

Conde de Prado: Silver/Blue
Jaoa Dantas da Cunha: Gold/blue
Praca de Braganza: Silver/Red
Guardias das Minas: Silver/Blue

We know nothing of the colours of the following cavalry regiments:
Campo Maoir
Praca de Elvas
Dragoons de Evora

Also, from reding the Balagan site, I think that the regimental colonels of the white-coated regiments may have worn the colour of the cuffs/linings, For example, The Regiment of Chaves had red cuffs/linings, while their officer wore a red-coat and a white cape.

Officers: By 1721 regimental officers were meant to wear the uniform of men but presumably more elaborate. Based on the Tercio de Chaves (see below), the colonel might wear his livery as the main coat colour. In the 17th century sashes were green (most common), blue or red, but in the 18th century red or carmine (dark red) predominated . Senior officers wore any colour they pleased.
Drummers: It seems they wore reversed colours, so the coat and trousers were the livery of the colonel...

Tercio (Regiment) de Chaves
This is one of the old infantry units and its uniform at the Battle of Almanza (April 1707) was described by the Mestre de Campo of the time:
Coat. White (presumably the new white grey as opposed to the old blue) with red distinctions (possibly "vermelho", a bright scarlet red).
Decorations. Gold/yellow .
Officer (i.e. himself). Red coat, white cape, gold trimmed hat.

[Gen.jamesWolfe]

do you have any furthur information on the portuguese army uniforms in the seven years war?

we need information for several regiments over at Kronoskaf, and honestly, the ones already there need an update.

(the encarnandas is off on the uniforms, and will need changing-among other things. since I'm responsible for the Iberian armies, I feel that they could use improvement. I just need more sources.)