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Thread: The Baltic Release: 2nd Preview

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    Horsa's Avatar Artifex
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    Default The Baltic Release: 2nd Preview



    Welcome to the WotN teams second Baltic release preview. Today, as always, we have some new units to show you, this time we have not just Vikings, but Slavs and Continental Saxons too! We will be previewing two Slavic units created by IVIarkI2I called Lučnici and Voje, the two Viking units Berserkir by Haedar and Bogmenn by Vikingr, and the Continental Saxon unit called Frilingi Warriors by Vikingr. We also have an early preview on the map during summer! Sound good? Then keep reading.

    Also, a big thanks to Beowulf47, Polak966 and Sivilombudsmannen for their unit descriptions. Another big thanks to MADTAO and everyone at the Lithuania mod for allowing us to use various models and textures from their units.



    Lučnici

    The bow was perhaps the most widespread weapon used among Slavic infantry. The shape of these steel arrow-heads varied, from original shapes to others adapted from the nomadic archers. The Slavs were famous for their ambushing tactics, and the Byzantines described many different strategies they used to avoid open battle. Among these was the use of guerrilla warfare, keeping to forested areas where combat was made easier for and preferred by the warrior-bands, to even hiding in lakes by using reeds as snorkels. Another feature of Slavic archers was the use of poison-tipped arrowheads, mentioned in the Strategikon.
    Lacking any form of armour such lighter troops would be armed with axes or knives as a secondary weapon.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    Voje

    The axe was a favourite weapon among the tribal warriors. Cheap but devastating,
    the Slavs made good use of domestic axes (topor) and specialized battle-axes (bordy) of varying
    weight and blade shape. The wide use of such a weapon made the Slavic warrior a terrifying force
    on the battlefield, and combined with the military traditions and hot-headedness of these peoples
    this ensured the varying success that powerful political bodies like Byzantium and Frankland had
    fighting against these new invaders from the east, who in the example of the former often found
    Slavic armies with Avar support pounding on the gates of Constantinople itself.
    The equipment of these men would be persistent with the norm; absence of armour, with only
    the defence provided by one’s shield.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Berserkir

    Who can say what Odin's intentions are with mankind? All that is known is when Fenrisulfr is cut from his bonds and the world serpent swallows the sun, the berserkirs will stand against Odin's foes. Berserkirs are great and terrible things, neither fully human nor beast, unmoved by fear or pain, pity or love. The battle wrath, the bloody mist that clouds their vision is unperturbable, save by death, and even this even this is not for certain.
    The Berserkirs throw all safety to the winds plunging into the fray unarmored and carving a grim wound into the enemies' lines, glutting the ravens with their corpses. The singleness of purpose and the unbridled rage of the Berserkir is frightening to those unfamiliar with them and terrifying to those who are not.
    The wise warlord knows that the Berserkir is a double edged blade and that while they may wreak great havoc on his adversaries, they are not easy to control, and under the sway of the berserkergang, they pursue their own dark ends.

    "It fits not young Fridgeir
    To fight with this warrior,
    Grim gnawer of shield-rim,
    By his gods who doth curse.
    I better may meet him,
    May rescue the maiden;
    Full fearsome he stareth,
    and fey are his eyes."
    - Chapter LXVII, Egil's Saga
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Bogmenn
    Where the are winters long, the growing season short and the soil poor and often frozen, people must find other means to eat. Hunting is as good a method as good as any. A felled boar or deer, if preserved and rationed, can get a family through much of the hungry winter months. Thus the peasants and freemen of our lands know how to use a bow with some skill.
    These are not true war bows, and as such their range and penetrative power is limited, and in all but the best of circumstances will not inflict massive casualties. They are, however, capable of manning the walls and towers, provoking rash and unwise actions among our foes, and causing injury to man, beast, and spirit.
    Like all peasants, Bogmenn can be fielded cheaply and quickly, are lightly equipped, and are happy to run away if given half an opportunity. But if used correctly they can be a valuable asset to any Viking host.

    "But blind Hoder stood sorrowfully away from the others, and did not join in any of their sports. Loki, seeing this, went to him and said, -
    'Brother of the gloomy brow, why do you not take part with us in our games?'
    'I am blind,' answered Hoder. I can neither leap, nor run, or throw the lance.'
    'But you can shoot arrows from your bow,' said Loki."
    - The Story of Siegfried
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Frilingi Warriors
    Frilingi Warriors are hardy peasants of Saxony, banding together in units from their local district, called Gô(Gau). These untrained Saxons are armed with the tools of their trade and a weary round-shield. Their class in Saxon society leaves them with little to no armour, and they will rather not compromise what little fabric there is, for brute flexibility. However, despite their low station, they are more then capable of defending their vulnerable independence, should the Frankish wet dream become a reality. Frilingi are the true Saxon patriots, who will bow their heads to no catholic despot.
    They are led by the nose of the Saxon nobles called Edlinging, the fighting elite. Frilingi, the second class, are poor freemen: paying taxes to no lord and working their land as they see fit. Orginating from auxiliaries, gives them the right to move freely and carry arms at all times. They are also a distinguished class from the half free Lassi, who are serfs working the land of the lords. In spite of their decentralised and strict segregated society, they are all strongly united in times of war.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    The Map (WIP)
    Warrior One: Map Creation
    gigantus: Map resizing, help and advice
    Vikingr: Terrain textures

    This map is a work in progress, obviously the names of settlements need to be edited. There will also be coastal smoothing done in the future and the terrains are not complete.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




















    Last edited by Horsa; November 27, 2009 at 07:59 AM.

  2. #2
    MorganH.'s Avatar Finis adest rerum
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    Default Re: The Baltic Release: 2nd Preview

    Another astonishing preview
    Cannot wait for its release,but where do i find the time to play all those upcomming Epic Mods
    +rep and Greetings

  3. #3

    Default Re: The Baltic Release: 2nd Preview

    Both Lucnici and Voje are broad terms. Lucnici means archers - and there were different types of archers in Slavs armies. For example light and most numerous peasant archers, medium gorod (castle) archers and heavier druzhina archers. I'm not sure which sort of archers are yours Lucnici.

    The same goes with Voje, which simply means warriors. Of course there were plenty class of warriors with different armor and weapons. And the Voje design that you proposed is very strange to me. I mean those guys are half naked and on foot without any shoes! They were able to make a nice shield and get iron bladed spears, but could't posses a normal clothes? I can't see the logic here. For God's sake Baltic region is a pretty cold one - show some mercy and give those warriors some (primitive) shoes! Also maybe southern Slavs fought with naked chest ( I believe it can be really hot in Balkans during summer) but such conditions are not coomon in northern region of baltic (hot days are really few). Also I believe none warrior would like to fight without even clothes protection. Maybe I'm not an expert of such early era (I prefer typical medieval era) but I have never seen a reconstructions of Slavs warriors of that naked design.

  4. #4
    Hereje's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: The Baltic Release: 2nd Preview

    I love those campaign textures!!!

  5. #5

    Default Re: The Baltic Release: 2nd Preview

    Yeah, now I can see the new models of settlements. Pretty nice ones

  6. #6

    Default Re: The Baltic Release: 2nd Preview

    Great job

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    Smeel's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: The Baltic Release: 2nd Preview

    Great Units, and i love the stratmap! Incredible detail, and the textures, just great!!
    But I hope you don't mind that I speak my mind about it. In the time of your mod, there where no or very little settlement in northern sweden (and remained so for centuries). Nomadic Saami tribes roamed, but if there were "swedish" settlements, they where confiend to small fishing villages along the coast. The innerland remained largely uninhibited until the 19th century. The northerns swedish settlements should probably have their real Saami names(Luleå=Luleju, Kiruna=Giron)
    Maybe conquering these settlements can be made as a colonization or something like that? Just my 2 cents, keep up the great work!

    For animals, the entire universe has been neatly divided into things to
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    Swagger's Avatar Imperial Coffee-Runner
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    Default Re: The Baltic Release: 2nd Preview

    Under the Patronage of the Dreadful cedric37!
    Ancs Guide, Emergent Factions , Yes/No Events |L'Outremer for Modders| Swagger's Skymod

  9. #9
    Horsa's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: The Baltic Release: 2nd Preview

    Quote Originally Posted by Silesian_Noble View Post
    Both Lucnici and Voje are broad terms. Lucnici means archers - and there were different types of archers in Slavs armies. For example light and most numerous peasant archers, medium gorod (castle) archers and heavier druzhina archers. I'm not sure which sort of archers are yours Lucnici.

    The same goes with Voje, which simply means warriors. Of course there were plenty class of warriors with different armor and weapons. And the Voje design that you proposed is very strange to me. I mean those guys are half naked and on foot without any shoes! They were able to make a nice shield and get iron bladed spears, but could't posses a normal clothes? I can't see the logic here. For God's sake Baltic region is a pretty cold one - show some mercy and give those warriors some (primitive) shoes! Also maybe southern Slavs fought with naked chest ( I believe it can be really hot in Balkans during summer) but such conditions are not coomon in northern region of baltic (hot days are really few). Also I believe none warrior would like to fight without even clothes protection. Maybe I'm not an expert of such early era (I prefer typical medieval era) but I have never seen a reconstructions of Slavs warriors of that naked design.
    I'm hardly a Slavic expert, but some early medieval warriors like the Celts and Germans before them may possibly have dressed in such a manner. Nakedness (or half nakedness) could possibly of been used to frighten the enemy like war paint. Then again, I'd don't know much about the Slavs, so maybe Polak could answer you more accurately. As for Slavs, I agree, they will probably need different names as we may not have enough for all the units names anyway. Any ideas for them are more than welcome!

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeel View Post
    But I hope you don't mind that I speak my mind about it. In the time of your mod, there where no or very little settlement in northern sweden (and remained so for centuries). Nomadic Saami tribes roamed, but if there were "swedish" settlements, they where confiend to small fishing villages along the coast. The innerland remained largely uninhibited until the 19th century. The northerns swedish settlements should probably have their real Saami names(Luleå=Luleju, Kiruna=Giron)
    Maybe conquering these settlements can be made as a colonization or something like that? Just my 2 cents, keep up the great work!
    Well, for obvious gameplay reasons there needs to be a few settlements in the area. Compared to other areas on the map though, you can see there isn't that many. I do agree on the names, but I'd like to hear from whoever decided on Sami settlements... Svensk?

  10. #10

    Default Re: The Baltic Release: 2nd Preview

    Quote Originally Posted by Silesian_Noble View Post
    Both Lucnici and Voje are broad terms. Lucnici means archers - and there were different types of archers in Slavs armies. For example light and most numerous peasant archers, medium gorod (castle) archers and heavier druzhina archers. I'm not sure which sort of archers are yours Lucnici.

    The same goes with Voje, which simply means warriors. Of course there were plenty class of warriors with different armor and weapons. And the Voje design that you proposed is very strange to me. I mean those guys are half naked and on foot without any shoes! They were able to make a nice shield and get iron bladed spears, but could't posses a normal clothes? I can't see the logic here. For God's sake Baltic region is a pretty cold one - show some mercy and give those warriors some (primitive) shoes! Also maybe southern Slavs fought with naked chest ( I believe it can be really hot in Balkans during summer) but such conditions are not coomon in northern region of baltic (hot days are really few). Also I believe none warrior would like to fight without even clothes protection. Maybe I'm not an expert of such early era (I prefer typical medieval era) but I have never seen a reconstructions of Slavs warriors of that naked design.
    well your not only whos able to understand it, slavis rooster at first release is gonna be very small just to represent slavic teritories at map during those times nothing special , so its just at general for future version we are planning to implent more slavs and much more centred it on slavs there are gonan be just 4 units at first release voje(warriors), lučnici (archers), konica (horsemen) and Borcje (heroes) so really nothing special with slavs keep waiting or support us by being part of our team to help us to improve this , doors are still open just knock

    well to voje its based on this pictures

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    as you can see they have some stripes of fabric on foots I added them to texture but its not well visible at game engine

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  11. #11
    helmersen's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: The Baltic Release: 2nd Preview

    Awesome map. guyes! Can't wait to see the final version!
    Interested in how Attila and the new LONGBEARDS DLC plays?

    Check out my Total War Attila: Jutes Let's Play: http://youtu.be/rFyxh4mj1pQ
    Check out my Total War Attila: The Langobards Let's Play: http://youtu.be/lMiHXVvVbCE
    Total War: Attila with ERE vs Sassanids GEM at max settings:
    http://youtu.be/jFYENvVpwIs
    Total War: Rome II Medieval Kingdoms Mod Gameplay: http://youtu.be/qrqGUYaLVzk

  12. #12

    Default Re: The Baltic Release: 2nd Preview

    Correct me if I'm wrong but you're using Madtao's heads/textures from the Lithuania right ?

    They look identical ...

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Your preview



    Baltic Crusaders:




    I didn't see you credit Madtao or the LithMod team anyway ? Maybe Madtao is already part of the team, but it's not very clear to me if so ?

  13. #13
    Horsa's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: The Baltic Release: 2nd Preview

    Yeah, we are. I credited him in a previous preview, but your right, I'll add that here too.

  14. #14

    Default Re: The Baltic Release: 2nd Preview

    NP...I can never forget his awesome textures ! He'll be an asset to your team.

  15. #15
    Horsa's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: The Baltic Release: 2nd Preview

    Quote Originally Posted by Yelü Dashi View Post
    NP...I can never forget his awesome textures ! He'll be an asset to your team.
    Yeah, he's an awesome guy, and amazing modder!

  16. #16

    Default Re: The Baltic Release: 2nd Preview

    Quote Originally Posted by IVIarkI2I View Post
    well your not only whos able to understand it, slavis rooster at first release is gonna be very small just to represent slavic teritories at map during those times nothing special , so its just at general for future version we are planning to implent more slavs and much more centred it on slavs there are gonan be just 4 units at first release voje(warriors), lučnici (archers), konica (horsemen) and Borcje (heroes) so really nothing special with slavs keep waiting or support us by being part of our team to help us to improve this , doors are still open just knock

    well to voje its based on this pictures

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    as you can see they have some stripes of fabric on foots I added them to texture but its not well visible at game engine

    They don't look like a western Slavs to me. Maybe southern Slavs, as I supposed before. The differences beetwen those two groups of Slavs are huge (southern were more influensed by Byzantium and Italians, while western were under Scandinavian influense) and you shouldn't treat them like they were the same. I'm shocked Polak966 hasn't told you that (I know he has some good knowledge and reference pictures).

    BTW. I used to present Polanie roster in WotN development forum as well as several nice reference pictures.
    Last edited by Silesian_Noble; November 27, 2009 at 08:16 AM.

  17. #17
    Smeel's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: The Baltic Release: 2nd Preview

    Quote Originally Posted by Víkingr View Post
    Well, for obvious gameplay reasons there needs to be a few settlements in the area. Compared to other areas on the map though, you can see there isn't that many. I do agree on the names, but I'd like to hear from whoever decided on Sami settlements... Svensk?
    yes, I was more about somehow making the settlements poorer or have very slow growth... another way(but more difficult) would be to increase the amount of settlements around the coast, and make the innerland settlements much bigger? Jo jag är svensk, men flyttar snart till Norge

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  18. #18
    Horsa's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: The Baltic Release: 2nd Preview

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeel View Post
    yes, I was more about somehow making the settlements poorer or have very slow growth... another way(but more difficult) would be to increase the amount of settlements around the coast, and make the innerland settlements much bigger? Jo jag är svensk, men flyttar snart till Norge
    They will be easy to conquer, but income from the settlements will be very low. The only reason worth capturing them would be for possibly strategic reasons. Obviously there will be just villages there, like in most other regions. There's not a huge amount of towns on the map at all, and you can't upgrade to cities anymore either. Its a bit different to vanilla, hope you will all enjoy it.

  19. #19
    Sanskrit_Bandit's Avatar Wielki Kniaź Wiślański
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    Default Re: The Baltic Release: 2nd Preview

    i can tell ill have to make a pretty big rebuttal to all the criticism coming my way regarding the slavs. i dont have for that right now, but when i get a chance to sit down i will provide a more expanded arguement. but for now,

    my only question silesian is your problem with naming units by simply what they were when we're talking about an early era tribal military force that had no structure or specific organization.
    do you have a problem with EBs naming shcemes as well, because most of their barbarian unit names simply mean 'warriors' or 'fighters' or 'brave men' etc. not to mention i used proto-slavic for the names to the best of my ability, and we are talking about the 8th nd 9th century here.
    but yes i will say the clothes need a change adjustment as they better represent southern slavs. i had wetsern slav concept art, i didnt expect to see the southern slav fashions dominate so much in the units.

  20. #20
    Beorn's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: The Baltic Release: 2nd Preview

    Great map, guys! As for the slavs, there's space for improvement...

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