3.5.2 Pontus campaign, medium battles/hard campaign

[Carados]

In another thread I posted this screenshot of a peculiar situation, but that aside you can get some idea of how the world powers are playing out.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Now, a few years later, I find myself in an even more precarious position!

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

It started with a most unfortunate loss against a Ptolemaic army north of Damascus. We had numerically equal strength armies. They had more pezoi whereas I had more archers. I was confident that my archers would be able to wear down the pezoi enough for my own to be able to take them on. Coupled with a larger and stronger general I also thought I could easily remove my opposite number and break a few from behind.

The reality was very different.

Although my archers did indeed cause plenty of casualties early on I could not cause enough damage for my pezoi to take advantage of. Shooting up a slight slope might not have helped matters. Unfortunately, as it where we both moved our generals to the our right flanks respectively at the same time, I was resigned to losing at least one of my archer units. I set about lining up a rear charge on a body of pezoi and I successfully carried it out, but disaster! I did not cause the casualties I intended and to add insult to injury, the phalangites spun round on the spot and reduced my generals unit from 28 down to a mere 6 and nearly routed him whilst almost completely surrounded!

The Ptolemaic general had by this time actually routed two of my archers, along with the help of some peltests who had recently rallied. Having lost my advantage in cavalry and missile units and horribly outclassed in close combat, I decided to try and kill the enemy general with the remaining 3 units of archers. This almost failed spectacularly as one routed, the other two nearly followed and would if it weren't for the intervention of my own general who had circled the battlefield. Unfortunately I was unable to kill him! He fled the field before I could catch him. Surverying the battlefield it was quite clear I was not going to win, I had already lost half of my pezoi and my archers were severly depleted. I elected to flee with what little units I had, leaving the rest of the pezoi to their fate.

In all I lost 6 of my 7 units of pezoi. Since I can only recruit them in my northern territories, and with my other army in Cyprus having to fend off a large stack of galatian mercenaries including a large contingent of cavalry, I may just have to give up Syria for the time being. In the meantime I am recruiting another army up in Pontus, however due to the situation I'm having to pull out some of my levy hoplite from their garrisons in the hope I can hold.

My alliance with Armenia has also ended. They decided to advance through my territory and attacked Nicomedia, I elected to remain allies with galatia, which at the moment might not have been the wisest of choices.

[Caligula Caesar]

I swear I've never seen that first screen in any of my games before

[Quinn Inuit]

Me neither. I wonder if the following situation would trigger it?
Allied army attacks enemy army
Allied army can see your army
Your army has movement points left

That's definitely a bad situation there. I recommend divesting yourself of borders with the Ptolies A.S.A.P.

I hate it when phalangites wheel like that. You'd think it would be harder to spin around with a sarissa. Were they already engaged from the front?

Of course, the problem with charging (from the rear) a unit that's attacking your spearmen is that your cavalry occasionally impale themselves on your guys.

[Carados]

I have a different theory.
If you look at the screen again, my army (by the watchtower) was heading southwards towards Syria. Notice how he's looking north-east? More specifically, how a diplomat seems to have communicated with him. Do you think it plausible that this is in actuality an "attack faction" request via the diplomat?? If so, what implications does this have on the player, I tried it out before by asking the Galatians to help out against the Ptollies but they refused - possibly because my army was not actually adjacent to an existing enemy army, as is the case in the above screen with the rebels.

This might change the future of gaming!! I'll try and investigate it more.


Another screenshot of my very productive day (hah!).

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

My position looks absolutely marvellous now. The Seleucids seem to have gotten stuck or something, they hardly have anything at all. Parthia have a group of uber generals who just refuse to die (but gold chevron general cataphracts like to defeat entire armies by themselves, nevermind 3 of them!). The Greeks... well. Yeah.

I also did a blitzkreig with one of my armies and sent it through the mountain pass between Sidon and Damascus and took the scarcely defended Jerusalem!! I can take apart the Ptolemaic armies piecemeal now.

Now, to be honest I was very lucky here - I suspect the Ptollies wanted to take Antioch, however the Seleucids still had Laodicea and hence wouldn't cross that province because it wasn't theirs. This enabled me to build up two stacks of troops. One led by Pharnaces, who did the blitzkreig, and the other relieved my army in Cyprus and is currently pushing along the south of Asia Minor. Side has recently fallen. The relieved Cyprus army can be seen garrisoned in Apameia, they recently just obliterated a half stack. I'll leave them there until I decide which area needs them most.

I hate it when phalangites wheel like that. You'd think it would be harder to spin around with a sarissa. Were they already engaged from the front?

Of course, the problem with charging (from the rear) a unit that's attacking your spearmen is that your cavalry occasionally impale themselves on your guys.

It was actually a massed brawl of pikes to be honest, there must've been 5 units all crammed into one place (three of their pezoi, two of mine). Hahah, yes, I have skewed my own general from time to time which is why I was a bit... when I saw Pharnaces move in the general direction of my pointy sticks...

Edit: Hmmm, there must be a trigger for them spinning on the spot though because they don't always do it do they?

[Auvar]

I have a different theory.
If you look at the screen again, my army (by the watchtower) was heading southwards towards Syria. Notice how he's looking north-east? More specifically, how a diplomat seems to have communicated with him. Do you think it plausible that this is in actuality an "attack faction" request via the diplomat?? If so, what implications does this have on the player, I tried it out before by asking the Galatians to help out against the Ptollies but they refused - possibly because my army was not actually adjacent to an existing enemy army, as is the case in the above screen with the rebels.

I just experienced this for the first time today and I thought I'd share my experience - it was quite a coincidence to see this thread and then see that screen for the first time ever the next day!

I was playing Epirus, allied to Macedon. The Seleucids had established firm control over coastal thrace and were at war with the Maks. A full-stack Seleucid army laid siege to Chalkidike (the settlement just south of Pella - I think I have that right). I moved a large army adjacent to them and the city; though I was not at war with the Seleucids yet, I expected that my army would be called in as reinforcements in the ensuing battle (and get a war started). I decided to wait there for the expected Seleucid assault, as I preferred to defend than attack. When the Maks got their turn, however, they decided to sally forth with their tiny garrison, and my army was called in as reinforcements in a sally.

My men arrived in time and - with surprisingly useful assistance from the little Mak garrison - managed to completely annihilate the Seleucids, who apparently decided that supporting phalanxes with any kind of cavalry or missile troops was underrated. Oddly, it was a night battle, even though the Mak general (who started the fight) had only 1 star (and I thought reinforcements didn't come in night battles? Oh well). No sooner had this battle ended than the screen in question popped up (it was still Macedon's turn). I didn't get a screenshot, but there was no Mak diplomat anywhere near me. I accepted, but then nothing seemed to happen - the turn ended and the view went elsewhere.

When it was my turn again, I noticed that my army had "jumped" a few tiles away to the outskirts of Pella, where the battle had been that I was called to. My guess is that the Seleucid army that the Maks had attacked (which was only about a quarter stack) wisely decided to retreat, and thus there hadn't been any battle even though - indeed, because - I accepted.

So, in summary, I was close to the battle (though not adjacent) and my stack had not moved at all last turn. Proximity and leftover movement seem to be the most likely reasons that I got the "assist" screen.

[Carados]

I just experienced this for the first time today and I thought I'd share my experience - it was quite a coincidence to see this thread and then see that screen for the first time ever the next day!

I was playing Epirus, allied to Macedon. The Seleucids had established firm control over coastal thrace and were at war with the Maks. A full-stack Seleucid army laid siege to Chalkidike (the settlement just south of Pella - I think I have that right). I moved a large army adjacent to them and the city; though I was not at war with the Seleucids yet, I expected that my army would be called in as reinforcements in the ensuing battle (and get a war started). I decided to wait there for the expected Seleucid assault, as I preferred to defend than attack. When the Maks got their turn, however, they decided to sally forth with their tiny garrison, and my army was called in as reinforcements in a sally.

My men arrived in time and - with surprisingly useful assistance from the little Mak garrison - managed to completely annihilate the Seleucids, who apparently decided that supporting phalanxes with any kind of cavalry or missile troops was underrated. Oddly, it was a night battle, even though the Mak general (who started the fight) had only 1 star (and I thought reinforcements didn't come in night battles? Oh well). No sooner had this battle ended than the screen in question popped up (it was still Macedon's turn). I didn't get a screenshot, but there was no Mak diplomat anywhere near me. I accepted, but then nothing seemed to happen - the turn ended and the view went elsewhere.

When it was my turn again, I noticed that my army had "jumped" a few tiles away to the outskirts of Pella, where the battle had been that I was called to. My guess is that the Seleucid army that the Maks had attacked (which was only about a quarter stack) wisely decided to retreat, and thus there hadn't been any battle even though - indeed, because - I accepted.

So, in summary, I was close to the battle (though not adjacent) and my stack had not moved at all last turn. Proximity and leftover movement seem to be the most likely reasons that I got the "assist" screen.

That is interesting.
Do you perhaps mean Thessalonica(sp?)? The one you mentioned is closer to Athens you see.
By chance did you notice any macedonian diplomat anywhere at all?? It could be that a diplomat had requested your assistance from say, Tarentum, where you might not instantly put the two together.

Regardless, this is definitely something I'm going to have a look at. Epirus seems to be an excellent candidate due to the alliance with Macedon (all the more reasons for Ambrakia, eh Quinn? ).

By the way, For those who are interested...

BETRAYED!!

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The Galatians attacked Sinope!! This obviously hurt me a lot, as such there was only one solution to their insult.

Total annihilation.

Unfortunately for the Galatians, I had a feeling they were about to attack me and so I sent up my faction leader and faction heir through the Tarsus pass. I had a large garrison in Heracleia, and another half army in Pontus. Finally, I had Pharnaces the Conquerer with half a stack in crete.

In short, they all combined and totally destroyed the Galatians in less than 2 years! My army in Pontus had brought together lots more troops and had shadowed the full Galatian stack that had beseiged Eusebeia. They obviously didn't like that and so Moved down to Tarsus via the Eastern passage. I then used a peculiar tactic to isolate it completely. I built two forts either side of the army! The Pontus general then made his way to the capital of Ancrya. My faction leader (shown in screenshot) decided to attack all the large field armies surrounding the area before taking Pessinus. It was a short and brutal war with many casualties to both sides, but my superior (and badly bloodied) cavalry was the telling factor.

At the end of the day, there could be no mercy. In time the survivors will learn that friendship is the best way to go about life and they will willingly serve my generals with distinction on the fields of battle.

[Auvar]

That is interesting.
Do you perhaps mean Thessalonica(sp?)? The one you mentioned is closer to Athens you see.
By chance did you notice any macedonian diplomat anywhere at all?? It could be that a diplomat had requested your assistance from say, Tarentum, where you might not instantly put the two together.

Yes, I suppose I did mean Thessalonika. I don't have the save from that particular turn, but I'll look around for a diplomat that could have been close by.

[FriendlyFire]

So, in summary, I was close to the battle (though not adjacent) and my stack had not moved at all last turn. Proximity and leftover movement seem to be the most likely reasons that I got the "assist" screen.

I had a similar experience: my Roman army had been sitting on the bridge below Patavium for some time, just in case my "allies" in there decided to get acquisitive. They had a small stack facing down some rebels in their territory, a few tiles beyond the bridge. At the end of one turn, I get the "request for assistance" screen, asking me to help fight these rebels, and I accept it. No battle resulted (as far as I could tell), but on my next turn my army had moved a few squares beyond the bridge, and the other two armies were now some distance off. At the time I figured that the now-outnumbered rebels withdrew from the battle, so we never got to actually play it out. No diplomat nearby, but one could easily have made the request via any of my other units or cities.

[Carados]

The plot thickens...

I've just been trying out Epirus giving and requesting assistence via forced diplomacy.
Despite me and macedon having various offensive and defensive battles with the rebels and greeks I couldn't get an assistence request at all, even with loads of movement points left.

Does anyone have a manual on hand?? Maybe there is something in there that everyone has missed somehow...

[Auvar]

I've just been trying out Epirus giving and requesting assistence via forced diplomacy. Despite me and macedon having various offensive and defensive battles with the rebels and greeks I couldn't get an assistence request at all, even with loads of movement points left.

It might be a "one way only" kind of thing. You, as the human player, are smart enough to maneuver your forces next to allied forces so your enemies are forced to deal with both of you or retreat. The AI, however, is not as capable, and if left to its own devices would never fight alongside an ally save for the occasional accident where an allied army just happens to be in just the right locale. This rare screen may be a "crutch" allowing the AI to call in assistance from a short radius away to make up for its strategic shortcomings - as opposed to the human player, who only calls in assistance when an allied army is directly adjacent. It happens so seldom, however, that it's hard to believe it has any substantial impact in the game overall (though I suppose it could be happening a lot between AI allies and we'd never know).

[Carados]

Yeah, I'm now thinking that is the way it happens.
Doesn't help that the ai likes to attack the human player, otherwise alliances might be more common and we could see this more.

Alas!

[Quinn Inuit]

Interesting. That would make sense. Maybe it only works when the AI character in question can "see" the allied army, too.

[Caesar Augustus]

This is most interesting. I'd love to find out more!