The Crusade and Jihad

**Baron Vlad Felix** · November 24, 2009, 01:10 PM

HI,after consultation with bro Agis,I would ask you about Crusade and Jihad:

I don't like how Crusade and Jihad are presented in other mods ( ex.: some catholic factions are leading Crusade against other catholic factions- that's not real and historical; Call on Jihad against some northen country (in Skandinavia....)-it is also unreal)
I think that call on Crusade and Jihad in the game to often...it have to depends on the force of the faction, her aliance, welth,money....
Two factions who are in state of war can not go together in Crusades.

Crusades were only called against heretics in catholic states for example against Kathars in France or Husits in Czech .Catholic factions shouldn't be able to launch Crusades against each others!..
Call on Crusade is possible to Islam faction, Lithuania,and maybe mongolian faction!
example:
"A Crusade against the Mongols April 09, 1241, Battle of Wahlstatt (Polish: Legnickie Pole)..In 1217 Pope Honorius III proclaimed a crusade against the Prussian pagans. ...... of the role of the Teutonic knights in fighting Mongols and Turks, ...

another question:
Is there a possibility that Byzantine lead the Crusade!?

Because in the first Crusade and maybe in the second one, they were involved. Around 1090th Alexius makes peace with the pope, with intent to obtain Western support against the "Seljuq Turks". Alexius asked Pope Urban II at the Council of Piacenza to convene a war against the infidel. Pope 1095th convened the Council of Clermont and called the First Crusade.
There was Byzantian Military (Orthodox)Order of Knights of the Holy Sepulchre of Jerusalem..
Antioch becomes a vassal state of the Byzantine Empire, imediatlly after first Crusade.

Call for a Crusade whit Orthodox faction
Drive Turks from Anatolia
Capture Holy Land

**Harry Lime** · November 24, 2009, 03:03 PM

Orthodox factions can't call or join a Crusade, it's hardcoded.

You can change what regions will suffer the indignity of having a Crusade or Jihad called upon them by adding or removing the 'crusade, jihad' entries in the descr-regions file.

**toluas** · November 24, 2009, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by Baron Vlad Felix

Two factions who are in state of war can not go together in Crusades.

Well, Richard of England and Philippus Augustus of France were in a (constant) state of war until immediately before taking the cross.

Is there a possibility that Byzantine lead the Crusade!?

Even though the request of Alexius "sparked" the crusades, the Byzantines had something very different in mind: some western troops, under byzantine command to regain lost territories. That a full-fledged army turned up at their walls, was absolutely not what they'd planned and led to a lot of bad blood between easterners and westerners. Biggest role they had in any crusade was being made a target during the Fourth Crusade in 1203/04...

**cedric37** · November 25, 2009, 03:05 AM

@Baron Vlad: Like i told you in the pm, and with some more examples and dates:

Well to be honest i quite like the crusades myself as a catholic as it is the only pro you have as a catholic, the con being that you cannot fight other catholics in fear of excommunication... and historically some catholic factions have been under crusade from other countries, like the albigeois and saint louis from france. This was called the "crusade against the albigeois" (1204+). Another example is the crusade against aragon (1284+).

I thought that Byzantium never participated directly in the crusades (i mean they did not send a big army in the name of the emperor) although they did help and yes some byz on their own participated on crusades, but the empire stayed still and just helped financially (and logistically) the crusading nations (until the 4th crusade which caused the fall of constantinople and since, the byz hated the crusaders even more than the muslims). Stop me if i am wrong.

So i am not sure. In terms of gameplay i really enjoy crusades; but your points and historical examples are all true and sensible so you are quite right.
But like i said i prefer to priviligiate the gameplay over the history.

**Baron Vlad Felix** · November 25, 2009, 05:35 AM

But it is nonsense "Call for a Crusade against London,Paris,Venice,Frankfurt ........it is not authentic ,historical..
Other ,some Catholic kingdoms in each of nonsense went on the crusade .... who has no connection with religion ... but they went only to conquer the lands, in the name of Christ!

Do not forget, is not only one time Orthodox country participated in a crusade together with the Catholics..... After Byzantine... ,Russians,Wlachians,Ruthenians,Moldavians,Serbs(but did not want to participate)were invited in crusade against Turks,Tatars,Mongols.....

Anyway I have not said that Byzantine to participate in the crusade together with Catholics!
I thought that they themselves participate in the crusade against muslim,in name of faith,cross and expansion of their religion.
For Byzantine is not strange when Catholics call the crusade, because Byzantines fought for centuries in the name of Christ against muslim and pagans!
Byzantium it was funny when Catholics call for a holy war because of religion (because for them it's nothing new...they always fought for Christ )

The byzantines fought their great wars in tenth century not only in the name of fight,but envisaged also the liberation of Jerusalem.
Nicephorus Pocas-"I shall conquer your lands,and i shall go as far as Mecca,where I shall erect a throne the greatest beings i.e Jesus...

ps.Even was a Catholic crusade against the Orthodox state......"crusades against Orthodox Novgorod".
it was ridiculous call crusade in the name of Christ against the Christians...........sadly ,but it happened!

And when they fought in the name of religion against the Muslim, majority they lost the battle(in real events)....So I do not understand why in game you win so easy,and conquer Muslim cities without any problems

**Kjertesvein** · November 25, 2009, 07:10 AM

There was a rich thread about this, you should definilty search it up. I can also find out which city have been targeted by a crusade etc.

then, in the end, create a mini mod. If it's clean looking, backed up by historical accuracy I bet it wil be implemented.

Wille

**Baron Vlad Felix** · November 25, 2009, 08:15 AM

Originally Posted by Sivilombudsmannen

There was a rich thread about this, you should definilty search it up. I can also find out which city have been targeted by a crusade etc.

then, in the end, create a mini mod. If it's clean looking, backed up by historical accuracy I bet it wil be implemented.

Wille

according to your thoughts ,we should not give any suggestion,or we need create own mini mod!?

**Kjertesvein** · November 25, 2009, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by Sivilombudsmannen

There was a rich thread about this, you should definilty search it up. I can also find out which city have been targeted by a crusade etc.

then, in the end, create a mini mod. If it's clean looking, backed up by historical accuracy I bet it wil be implemented.

Sorry

, I'm abit confused by what you ment: "according to your thoughts ", "we should not give any suggestion" + "we need create own mini mod!? "... what?

you see

I am orrientated around fixing what is broken. then implement it the various facts in each campaign according to historical accuracy in the historical campaign. While more game play friendly jihad/crusade targets in imperial campaign.

-Wille.

**Taiji** · November 25, 2009, 12:43 PM

I got jihaded at Arhus when playing danes and the dark age hit. Cool in a way, but I pitied the muslim factions wasting time with my arhus the same way the more numerous christians seem keen to go to the middle east.

It would be great to assign jihad targets on the basis that the previous owner had at some point been muslim... wasn't this how MTW1 worked?

It's a shame if it's hardcoded and can't be scripted, I wouldn't know but I imagine Harry is right.