Nato country to sell cutting edge ship to Russia.

[alhoon]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/eu_russia_france_navy_ship
Russia plans to buy a ship from the French, a NATO country. The ship will be able to transport and deploy men right on enemy coasts. Neighbors of Russia protest.
Since NATO is selling weapons to Russia then I doupt these protest will find much support with NATO.

It can land as many men in Georgia within 40 mins as the Black Sea fleet took 26 hours to land.

[Ahlerich]

what sell we discuss? the price?

[alhoon]

what sell we discuss? the price?

500 million Euros.
And Russia plans to buy more. Or have more made in Russia, I'm not sure, it's somewhere in the article.

My father told me yesterday that he thinks in 15-20 years Russia will join NATO. I disagreed. But after events like this... who knows? It suddenly seems possible that Russia will join NATO in the not-so-distant future.

[magpie]

In these times of financial stress, One has to make a buck where one can!

[Poach]

My father told me yesterday that he thinks in 15-20 years Russia will join NATO. I disagreed. But after events like this... who knows? It suddenly seems possible that Russia will join NATO in the not-so-distant future.

NATO's sole purpose in life was to deal with a war against the USSR. In 15-20 years it is far more likely that NATO will be disbanded or have its name changed and integrated into the UN as a military arm.

I wonder how Russia will be in 20 years time, locked in an arms race with a united Europe, perhaps?

[alhoon]

NATO's sole purpose in life was to deal with a war against the USSR. In 15-20 years it is far more likely that NATO will be disbanded or have its name changed and integrated into the UN as a military arm.

That's what I told my father too. He told me that the purpose of NATO these days is far different, more like an alliance of the Western World. Recently it has started to change to alliance of western world + friends.
My father thinks that in 10-15 years it will be something like a global alliance and then Russia will join making NATO a global army.

[Mr. Scott]

NATO's sole purpose in life was to deal with a war against the USSR. In 15-20 years it is far more likely that NATO will be disbanded or have its name changed and integrated into the UN as a military arm.

I wonder how Russia will be in 20 years time, locked in an arms race with a united Europe, perhaps?

I'm thinking that Russia will be in an arms race with Britain, America, and Poland in the future. A united europe is a bit near-impossible as there are way to many distinct and proud cultures. Take the French for instance...

NATO won't disband, but it won't be as unfied in the future. It's just gonna be America, Britain, and Poland. I say Poland because they have the most to lose against Russia and will not want the Russians on their border again. Mainly because history has shown that it has caused the poles much strife. So the Polish will do everything they can to aid NATO in stopping an emerging Russia. Although, even if Russia does emerge, it certainly won't have the power it once did. Mainly because of its dependency on oil for its economy and because of its demographic problems.

[danzig]

500 million Euros.
And Russia plans to buy more. Or have more made in Russia, I'm not sure, it's somewhere in the article.

My father told me yesterday that he thinks in 15-20 years Russia will join NATO. I disagreed. But after events like this... who knows? It suddenly seems possible that Russia will join NATO in the not-so-distant future.

Pfft wont happen until a) russia realizes its true position in the world and accepts it or b) china starts breathing down its neck. Anyway I thought russian tech was so superior why would they need NATO tech? Does seem rather stupid for France to sell it to russia but shrug.

[Mangalore]

Pfft wont happen until a) russia realizes its true position in the world and accepts it or b) china starts breathing down its neck. Anyway I thought russian tech was so superior why would they need NATO tech? Does seem rather stupid for France to sell it to russia but shrug.

Russia was never big on carriers, be it amphibious landing crafts or aircraft carriers. If I remember correctly from some other article the basic goal is to rebuilt their fleet and adapt it to new scenario. Currently it is running on reserves.
There are various advantages to such a deal for either side as military cooperation in such a manner would mean the official end of rivalries though Georgia and other countries won't like it.

a) russia realizes its true position in the world and accepts it

What is Russia's true position in the world? I think reality diverts from both sides of the fence, Russian and NATO ones.

[danzig]

Russia was never big on carriers, be it amphibious landing crafts or aircraft carriers. If I remember correctly from some other article the basic goal is to rebuilt their fleet and adapt it to new scenario. Currently it is running on reserves.
There are various advantages to such a deal for either side as military cooperation in such a manner would mean the official end of rivalries though Georgia and other countries won't like it.



What is Russia's true position in the world? I think reality diverts from both sides of the fence, Russian and NATO ones.

Well I mean acceptence that its future is more along the lines of say Germany, UK in the world then what it was, ie a major power vs a super power.

[Heathen Hammer]

Pfft wont happen until a) russia realizes its true position in the world and accepts it or b) china starts breathing down its neck. Anyway I thought russian tech was so superior why would they need NATO tech? Does seem rather stupid for France to sell it to russia but shrug.

a) How dare those evil Russians follow their own national interests!
b) Why should China breath down the neck of its only posible ally? I doubt US wants strong China that much, it would be pretty stipid for China to alienate another power against itself.
On the other hand, I believe that current government, put aside all the Soviet nostalgia (that was made to appease population), is a bunch of sellouts who will eventually join west(and NATO as a result) if it would benefit them.

Russia fleet is very outdated, so getting some new ships doesn't look like a bad idea.

[ivan_the_terrible]

My father told me yesterday that he thinks in 15-20 years Russia will join NATO. I disagreed. But after events like this... who knows? It suddenly seems possible that Russia will join NATO in the not-so-distant future.

I think it's more likely that in 15-20 years europe will have it's own organisation, outside of NATO.

I also don't think Russia will be part of it, but it's a better chance than Russia in NATO.

[Armfelt]

500 million Euros.
My father told me yesterday that he thinks in 15-20 years Russia will join NATO. I disagreed. But after events like this... who knows? It suddenly seems possible that Russia will join NATO in the not-so-distant future.

I think it is far more probable, that NATO will seize to exist within the next 15-20 years.

[Aru]

Good for Russia and France.

[Pious Agnost]

I think Russia's neighbours have more to fear than a naval invasion.

Who knows, maybe that ship will end up hunting pirates. I just hope the Russians are less kind to them than we are

[alhoon]

Russian tech is superior to some things. Navy... no, not at all. And it shows that Russia-NATO relations are very good indeed, whatever people in here tried to convince us they will be after Georgia attacked Osetia. I still remember many people saying that Caucasus war will severy hamper Russia's relations with the rest of the world etc etc.

Pfffffffft.

Money talks louder. Half.Billion.Euros.

Russia was never big on carriers, be it amphibious landing crafts or aircraft carriers. If I remember correctly from some other article the basic goal is to rebuilt their fleet and adapt it to new scenario. Currently it is running on reserves.

That article says so too. Running on less than resoerves it seems.

There are various advantages to such a deal for either side as military cooperation in such a manner would mean the official end of rivalries though Georgia and other countries won't like it.

Georgia won't like it? Then I guess they have to turn to NATO... oh, wait. NATO is selling the weapons. Oh, well.

And to be sincere... Russia doesn't need this ship to deal with Georgia.

[Ishoss]

Why should NATO be nicer to Georgia than Russia?

[Darkhorse]

Why should NATO be nicer to Georgia than Russia?

Georgia's huge 1900 man ISAF contribution which effectively covers the withdrawal of Dutch forces.

[Holger Danske]

Russian tech is superior to some things. Navy... no, not at all. And it shows that Russia-NATO relations are very good indeed, whatever people in here tried to convince us they will be after Georgia attacked Osetia. I still remember many people saying that Caucasus war will severy hamper Russia's relations with the rest of the world etc etc.

France has a long history of selling weapons to almost anyone who actually would buy them. So this does certainly not prove anything about NATO-Russian relations - at least not as being very good indeed... Russia wants show the world that she still has a navy and is trying not to fall forever behind the western militaries in this area. Given the arms industry's bad days I bet that Russia might be looking to the foreign market for newer equipment.

[corpse helvetica]

France wants to sell ships, Russia wants to buy ships, but Russia wants to get know-how too; that is something what France does not want to give away....

But what is the purpose of those ships?