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    Default Obama's Nice Guy Act Gets Him Nowhere on the World Stage

    Obama's Nice Guy Act Gets Him Nowhere on the World Stage

    When he entered office, US President Barack Obama promised to inject US foreign policy with a new tone of respect and diplomacy. His recent trip to Asia, however, showed that it's not working. A shift to Bush-style bluntness may be coming.

    There were only a few hours left before Air Force One was scheduled to depart for the flight home. US President Barack Obama trip through Asia had already seen him travel 24,000 kilometers, sit through a dozen state banquets, climb the Great Wall of China and shake hands with Korean children. It was high time to take stock of the trip.

    Barack Obama looked tired on Thursday, as he stood in the Blue House in Seoul, the official residence of the South Korean president. He also seemed irritable and even slightly forlorn. The CNN cameras had already been set up. But then Obama decided not to play along, and not to answer the question he had already been asked several times on his trip: what did he plan to take home with him? Instead, he simply said "thank you, guys," and disappeared. David Axelrod, senior advisor to the president, fielded the journalists' questions in the hallway of the Blue House instead, telling them that the public's expectations had been "too high."

    The mood in Obama's foreign policy team is tense following an extended Asia trip that produced no palpable results. The "first Pacific president," as Obama called himself, came as a friend and returned as a stranger. The Asians smiled but made no concessions.

    Lost Some Stature

    Upon taking office, Obama said that he wanted to listen to the world, promising respect instead of arrogance. But Obama's currency isn't as strong as he had believed. Everyone wants respect, but hardly anyone is willing to pay for it. Interests, not emotions, dominate the world of realpolitik. The Asia trip revealed the limits of Washington's new foreign policy: Although Obama did not lose face in China and Japan, he did appear to have lost some of his initial stature.

    In Tokyo, the new center-left government even pulled out of its participation in a mission which saw the Japanese navy refueling US warships in the Indian Ocean as part of the Afghanistan campaign. In Beijing, Obama failed to achieve any important concessions whatsoever. There will be no binding commitments from China to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. A revaluation of the Chinese currency, which is kept artificially weak, has been postponed. Sanctions against Iran? Not a chance. Nuclear disarmament? Not an issue for the Chinese.

    The White House did not even stand up for itself when it came to the question of human rights in China. The president, who had said only a few days earlier that freedom of expression is a universal right, was coerced into attending a joint press conference with Chinese President Hu Jintao, at which questions were forbidden. Former US President George W. Bush had always managed to avoid such press conferences.

    Relatively Unsuccessful

    A look back in time reveals the differences. When former President Bill Clinton went to China in June 1998, Beijing wanted to impress the Americans. A press conference in the Great Hall of the People, broadcast on television as a 70-minute live discussion, became a sensation the world over. Clinton mentioned the 1989 Tiananmen Square massacre, when the government used tanks against protestors. But then President Jiang Zemin defended the tough approach taken by the Chinese Communists. At the end of the exchange, the Chinese president praised the debate and said: "I believe this is democracy!"

    Obama visited a new China, an economic power that is now making its own demands. America should clean up its government finances, and the weak dollar is unacceptable, the head of the Chinese banking authority said, just as Obama's plane was about to land.

    Obama's new foreign policy has also been relatively unsuccessful elsewhere, with even friends like Israel leaving him high and dry. For the government of Israel Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, peace is only conceivable under its terms. Netanyahu has rejected Obama's call for a complete moratorium on the construction of settlements. As a result, Obama has nothing to offer the Palestinians and the Syrians. "We thought we had some leverage," says Martin Indyk, a former ambassador to Israel under the Clinton administration and now an advisor to Obama. "But that proved to be an illusion."

    Even the president seems to have lost his faith in a genial foreign policy. The approach that was being used in Afghanistan this spring, with its strong emphasis on civilian reconstruction, is already being changed. "We're searching for an exit strategy," said a staff member with the National Security Council on the sidelines of the Asia trip.

    'A Lot Like Jimmy Carter'

    An end to diplomacy is also taking shape in Washington's policy toward Tehran. It is now up to Iran, Obama said, to convince the world that its nuclear power is peaceful. While in Asia, Obama mentioned "consequences" unless it followed his advice. This puts the president, in his tenth month in office, where Bush began -- with threats. "Time is running out," Obama said in Korea. It was the same phrase Bush used against former Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein, shortly before he sent in the bombers.

    There are many indications that the man in charge at the White House will take a tougher stance in the future. Obama's advisors fear a comparison with former Democratic President Jimmy Carter, even more than with Bush. Prominent Republicans have already tried to liken Obama to the humanitarian from Georgia, who lost in his bid to win a second term, because voters felt that he was too soft. "Carter tried weakness and the world got tougher and tougher because the predators, the aggressors, the anti-Americans, the dictators, when they sense weakness, they all start pushing ahead," Newt Gingrich, the former Republican speaker in the House of Representatives, recently said. And then he added: "This does look a lot like Jimmy Carter."

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/...662822,00.html
    Has any of Obama foreign policy accomplish anything yet? The Russia and China are not that interested in any of Obama's plans.

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    Default Re: Obama's Nice Guy Act Gets Him Nowhere on the World Stage

    Quote Originally Posted by B5C View Post
    Has any of Obama foreign policy accomplish anything yet? The Russia and China are not that interested in any of Obama's plans.
    how has he been a nice guy?

    if anything he's played a double faced game ensuring noone trusts him
    he's a fence sitter, and fence sitters get nowhere

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    Default Re: Obama's Nice Guy Act Gets Him Nowhere on the World Stage



    Excellent Mr. Obama...excellent...*cues evil laugh* his confusing stratagem of political opponents and the world alike is working as planned!

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    Default Re: Obama's Nice Guy Act Gets Him Nowhere on the World Stage

    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    how has he been a nice guy?
    Removing the missile defense shield for Russia, so Russia can join the US with sanctions of Iran.

    he's a fence sitter, and fence sitters get nowhere
    Yes, it does not take a freaking year with his war cabinet to send reinforcements or not.

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    Default Re: Obama's Nice Guy Act Gets Him Nowhere on the World Stage

    Quote Originally Posted by B5C View Post
    Removing the missile defense shield for Russia, so Russia can join the US with sanctions of Iran..
    yeh, but to the russians, they dont see it that way, especially in light of the plan to move those installations elsewhere, rather than ditching the whole ABM plan.

    Yes, it does not take a freaking year with his war cabinet to send reinforcements or not
    indeed,

    Obama 's foreign policy atm seems to be about confidence building but confidence building for what?
    seems to me it's all style and no substance;

    he didnt get what he wanted out of his China trip, but seemed to make good friendship groundwork with them bu the following week he puts the china relationship in jeopardy with plans to develop military ties with India,
    and if he wants to throw his lot in with india, pakistan will get peeved at him and he needs pakistan to win in a-stan

    so it's likea real bad game of musical chairs lol

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    Default Re: Obama's Nice Guy Act Gets Him Nowhere on the World Stage

    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    yeh, but to the russians, they dont see it that way, especially in light of the plan to move those installations elsewhere, rather than ditching the whole ABM plan.



    indeed,

    Obama 's foreign policy atm seems to be about confidence building but confidence building for what?
    seems to me it's all style and no substance;

    he didnt get what he wanted out of his China trip, but seemed to make good friendship groundwork with them bu the following week he puts the china relationship in jeopardy with plans to develop military ties with India,
    and if he wants to throw his lot in with india, pakistan will get peeved at him and he needs pakistan to win in a-stan

    so it's likea real bad game of musical chairs lol

    As it's hard to get things done if you speak softly, but you don't carry your big stick.

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    Default Re: Obama's Nice Guy Act Gets Him Nowhere on the World Stage

    And thus people will complain.

    You can never appease the world without people complaining about america again.

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    Default Re: Obama's Nice Guy Act Gets Him Nowhere on the World Stage

    Quote Originally Posted by B5C View Post
    As it's hard to get things done if you speak softly, but you don't carry your big stick.
    ...which obama cant use unless ppl start (and alreayd are) accusing him of just being BusH III

    obama got voted on a platform of reinvigorating USA's love around the world not seen since the Clinton admin.

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    Default Re: Obama's Nice Guy Act Gets Him Nowhere on the World Stage

    Quote Originally Posted by B5C View Post
    Has any of Obama foreign policy accomplish anything yet? The Russia and China are not that interested in any of Obama's plans.
    And they would be interested if it would be Bush?

    Don't be foolish guys. Bush has so badly ed up US reputation globally that Obama could be Mother Teresa and get cold shoulder.

    Newsflash dear americans, despite you hoping so, switching president does not miraculously reset all the bad rep your previous imbecile of a president created.

    Having yet another Bush trying to fumble and bully his way through the would would only increase the problems, not decrease.


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    Default Re: Obama's Nice Guy Act Gets Him Nowhere on the World Stage

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiwaz View Post
    And they would be interested if it would be Bush?

    Don't be foolish guys. Bush has so badly ed up US reputation globally that Obama could be Mother Teresa and get cold shoulder.

    Newsflash dear americans, despite you hoping so, switching president does not miraculously reset all the bad rep your previous imbecile of a president created.

    Having yet another Bush trying to fumble and bully his way through the would would only increase the problems, not decrease.
    Yet, if Obama is the next Jimmy Carter. Would you love to see another Ronald Regan come in 2012?

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    Default Re: Obama's Nice Guy Act Gets Him Nowhere on the World Stage

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiwaz View Post

    Newsflash dear americans, despite you hoping so, switching president does not miraculously reset all the bad rep your previous imbecile of a president created.
    Well the flip side of it is that relationship could so permanently be effected despite years and years of otherwise good relations by one presidency. Why hold a grudge so to speak for one big bad failed president. People loved the US during 8 years of Clinton, disliked it after 6 years of Bush (giving 2 years grace period) so one would expect a return to moderation with Obama.

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    Default Re: Obama's Nice Guy Act Gets Him Nowhere on the World Stage

    Quote Originally Posted by danzig View Post
    Well the flip side of it is that relationship could so permanently be effected despite years and years of otherwise good relations by one presidency. Why hold a grudge so to speak for one big bad failed president. People loved the US during 8 years of Clinton, disliked it after 6 years of Bush (giving 2 years grace period) so one would expect a return to moderation with Obama.
    Sorry, bad stuff has more impact than good one. Building things takes much more time than tearing them down, something Americans should remember more acutely.


    And it would be more easily forgiven if Americans had kicked the imbecile out of office after first term, but they elected same moron for SECOND term.

    You know the famous saying which Bush for his part apparently made famous: "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."


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    Default Re: Obama's Nice Guy Act Gets Him Nowhere on the World Stage

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiwaz
    Sorry, bad stuff has more impact than good one.
    I for one think you're acting like a rhetorical demagogue whose self-absorbed "Rah! Rah! America sucks! The rest of the world hates you!" language got old a really long time ago.....

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    Default Re: Obama's Nice Guy Act Gets Him Nowhere on the World Stage

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiwaz View Post
    Sorry, bad stuff has more impact than good one. Building things takes much more time than tearing them down, something Americans should remember more acutely.


    And it would be more easily forgiven if Americans had kicked the imbecile out of office after first term, but they elected same moron for SECOND term.

    You know the famous saying which Bush for his part apparently made famous: "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
    Bush actually said "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice... ehh.. mmm... you can't fool me twice!"

    Also, whatever the Obama critics pull against him, he gets more and more respect and approval from people around the world (well, except USA). We don't like to be bullied by the USA. He doesn't do that.


    As for his policies accomplishing nothing, Arabs hate you far, far less now.
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    Default Re: Obama's Nice Guy Act Gets Him Nowhere on the World Stage

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiwaz View Post
    Sorry, bad stuff has more impact than good one. Building things takes much more time than tearing them down, something Americans should remember more acutely.


    And it would be more easily forgiven if Americans had kicked the imbecile out of office after first term, but they elected same moron for SECOND term.
    Well at this rate our 'allies' will have been quicker to forgive Germans after WW2 then they will us for Bush, yes Im being sarcastic to a point. There is no rational reason to let decades of good relations remain in the toilet for an 8 year blip. After all we dont hold Schröder against the Germans or Mitterrand against the French when *they* elected two idiots....granted Bush excelled at idiocy bringing it too a new level but still.

    And the reason the "moron" got elected the second time was because Democrats decided to run a wooden log without a single clue how to express himself and his views and showed the intellectual capacity that made Bush seem like Einstein. Really when choice is between idiot a or idiot b no one has any right to complain when an idiot wins an election.

    Also, whatever the Obama critics pull against him, he gets more and more respect and approval from people around the world (well, except USA). We don't like to be bullied by the USA. He doesn't do that.
    Which just goes to prove the rather infantile, mindless views of non americans when it comes to american politics. You guys just havent figured out due to US "power" you get bullied regardless who is president just with some (clinton, obama) they wine and dine you first. Case in point how did that climate change summit go btw? You know despite public claims of WE MUST ACT NOW by Obama and we cant delay it anymore.

    As for his policies accomplishing nothing, Arabs hate you far, far less now.
    Foreign policy isnt a popularity contest nor should it be treated as one and Obama has actually done nothing to warrant being hated less besides being "not Bush". Gitmo is still open, troops are still in Iraq and Afghanistan, Israel/Palestinians show no signs of any progress, Iran is still an issue.
    Last edited by danzig; November 24, 2009 at 04:26 AM.

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    Default Re: Obama's Nice Guy Act Gets Him Nowhere on the World Stage

    Quote Originally Posted by danzig View Post
    Foreign policy isnt a popularity contest nor should it be treated as one and Obama has actually done nothing to warrant being hated less besides being "not Bush". Gitmo is still open, troops are still in Iraq and Afghanistan, Israel/Palestinians show no signs of any progress, Iran is still an issue.
    Troops are leaving Iraq, although if McCain had won, they wouldn't. Gitmo is in the process of closing and I'm confident they're not torturing people there now. Israel being an issue is a huge progress. Two years ago, Israel had much better reputation among Americans. Now at least, UN condemns them for having nukes. Iran is still an issue but it's not called "Axis of evil" and I don't think USA is with the hand on the trigger with Persia. Oh, and they will get nukes eventually.


    Quote Originally Posted by danzig View Post
    You guys just havent figured out due to US "power" you get bullied regardless who is president just with some (clinton, obama) they wine and dine you first.
    Clinton wasn't good or nice. He was just better than Bush. In Greece many people like Obama, dislike Clinton and hate Bush.
    Obama manages to make us believe that we're not bullied but we accept because of what he offers, not what he threats. It's still a carrot/stick relation. He just presents the carrot more.

    Oh, and he gave a couple of advises to our Prime minister, that he followed and we're in a better shape. Just a couple of advises. Obama congratulated him and they talked for 5 mins.
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    Default Re: Obama's Nice Guy Act Gets Him Nowhere on the World Stage

    Quote Originally Posted by danzig View Post
    Well at this rate our 'allies' will have been quicker to forgive Germans after WW2 then they will us for Bush, yes Im being sarcastic to a point. There is no rational reason to let decades of good relations remain in the toilet for an 8 year blip. After all we dont hold Schröder against the Germans or Mitterrand against the French when *they* elected two idiots....granted Bush excelled at idiocy bringing it too a new level but still.
    Perhaps Germans just learned their lesson? It has been 6 decades since WW2. It has not yet been 6 years of Bush out of office.

    And the reason the "moron" got elected the second time was because Democrats decided to run a wooden log without a single clue how to express himself and his views and showed the intellectual capacity that made Bush seem like Einstein. Really when choice is between idiot a or idiot b no one has any right to complain when an idiot wins an election.
    Why you guys have to insist on having only two candidates? It is of course your right to have two or even one candidate, but don't whine when it comes and bites you in the ass!

    Quote Originally Posted by WrathofTulkas View Post
    I have to disrespectfully disagree... self-interest is a much more powerful force. If Act 1 is not going to be beneficial to person A, but beneficial to person B, and in order for Act 1 to occur person A and B must agree to it, is person A really going to accept if its not beneficial? Simple answer no, and goodwill isn't going to change that. Something good has to happen to Person A too!
    So where is the good which happens to world if it permits USA to act like a lunatic bull in chinashop?
    Hmm?

    So why would other countries play by interests of USA if USA just does what it wants and ignores needs and interests of others?

    Sooner or later, USA is in position where it needs help from others in one form or another. And old petty grievances WILL come out at that moment. At that point, USA has to pay for aid of that country and pay extra for forgetting old grievances to make deal sweet enough for other side to accept.

    Same is true for every nation, which is why most countries try to be much more careful in diplomatic field than US previous government. It is so easy to ruin your reputation and pay for it for years to come.
    Last edited by Tiwaz; November 24, 2009 at 11:50 PM.


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    Default Re: Obama's Nice Guy Act Gets Him Nowhere on the World Stage

    The comparisons to Jimmy Carter are outlandishly invalid.

    And god forbid that we have to go through the same syndrome every forty years. That's not a good thing. The world simply does not need the mediocracy of the late 20th Century following the incessant corruption and assassinations.
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    Default Re: Obama's Nice Guy Act Gets Him Nowhere on the World Stage

    Future, America's rivals are not going to play nice because Obama is being nice. That has never work well with any President. That is why we need our "Big Stick." We need to back up our words. If we don't have nothing to back it up. They will ignore us. Teddy's foreign policy is the best America can use.


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    Default Re: Obama's Nice Guy Act Gets Him Nowhere on the World Stage

    Quote Originally Posted by B5C View Post
    Future, America's rivals are not going to play nice because Obama is being nice. That has never work well with any President. That is why we need our "Big Stick." We need to back up our words. If we don't have nothing to back it up. They will ignore us. Teddy's foreign policy is the best America can use.

    And how is Obama being so nice? I mean from what I've read the only real concessions he's made is the missle shield, which was a useless program in the first place. The current administration simply acknowledges the fact that Russia is not a major threat against American or NATO interests at this time. Many of the east European nations were against it in the first place, so its only pragmatic that he simply scrapped it. It didn't seem to be much more than Reagan's Star Wars hogwash and massive waste of resources.

    The only other concessions he's made is just through talk. He's just chosen not to bring up too many sensitive matters in his trip. If his visits in Asia have turned out bleak, it may be because he shot himself in the foot when talking to Koreans about China's censorship of the internet.

    I mean, Obama has been far more tough regarding the North Korean issue than Europeans have been. He's been trying to drag the UN behind him in placing further sanctions on it for its nuclear development, plus Iran. Having the Russians and Americans united together on even a simple issue like that would be a tantamount achievement.

    Apart from his blunders regarding Afghanistan and being too cautious to reveal any real withdrawal plan for Iraq, the one good thing I can say about Obama's foreign policy is that he is trying to bring countries together instead of isolating them. You may not agree, but I perceive this exactly as the actions that a President should be. Primarily a diplomat and pursuing friendship and trade with all nations, even those we may have clashed with. I mean if talks fail, this does not mean immediately beat the big stick over their heads like a barbarian state.

    And Teddy Roosevelt is not well regarded for his foreign policy, but his domestic policies. Roosevelt encountered great resistance in public opinion from the anti-imperialists. Also Roosevelt was progressive liberal for his time.

    I'm by no means an Obama supporter nor a Democrat for that matter, but the allusions to Carter simply don't hold water. Carter was arguably far more left than Obama is.
    Last edited by Admiral Piett; November 24, 2009 at 01:18 PM.
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