Suggestion for the Elves: Options of expansion

[Atli]

I know a Total War game is about changing history, or lore in this case, but I like to imagine the Elves of the Third Age as a “fading” people, or at least not as an aggressively expanding people. So I have a suggestion that would give the player the possibility of a different gameplay as the Elves, without taking away the possibilty to play as we are used to now.

I started to think of this when, in my Silvan Elves campaign, the factions of Rohan and Gondor were destroyed but not totally conquered, and their remaining regions became rebels. I started to “liberate” what had been Rohan and Gondor and thought it would be interesting to have the possibility to reorganize the remaining men and freed slaves under the authority of the Elf kings, and that you could recruit troops from those regions without decreasing the local Northmen/Dúnedain culture.

TATW is already a great mod, incredibly well done and highly enjoyable, and my suggestion may imply too much effort for too less. Anyway, here is my idea:

Many (if not all) factions in Rome TW, and Lithuania in the Teutonic campaign of Kingdoms, can build religious buildings dedicated to three different deities. Each settlement can only have one type of temple; e.g. if you build a shrine to the fertility deity in a settlement, you won’t be able to build a shrine to the war god or the sky god in that same settlement.

The Elves could have three line of buildings to choose from:

1. “Repopulation”. You choose to repopulate the region; the remaining humans are allowed to stay as peasants and workers, but not to fight in the elven armies. The elven culture increases. This line of buildings will allow you to recruit elven units. If you always choose this option, everything should be as it is now.

2. “Annexation”. The local men are allowed to enter the elven military, trained and equipped as Elves. This line of buildings will allow you to recruit human units with elven weapons and warfare style.

3. “Autonomy”. The local human population is allowed a high level of self-government, recognizing the authority of the Elf kings. They would equip themselves and fight in their traditional way. This line of buildings will allow you to recruit a few human units equipped according to the local human culture. To compensate the fact that you would have access to more varied units, you should not be able to recruite them very often; and maybe the income from “autonomous” regions should be lower than usual. These buildings would increase the local human culture.

This could probably work for the dwarves too. Mordor, Isengard and the OotMM don’t need this, because they would just exterminate/enslave/eat/etc. the conquered humans.

[Toryn]

I like the idea of a different playing path for the elves. It seems a little pointless to just fight so hard and build this massive empire knowing it's all going to thrown away.

[desean]

i kinda like this ideia too, would be nice to in a realistic way to increase the elven and dwarven borders without exterminating the local human population, and could this be used for hobbits too? i feel bad that hobbits are treated has northman in TA

[Evan MF]

i kinda like this ideia too, would be nice to in a realistic way to increase the elven and dwarven borders without exterminating the local human population, and could this be used for hobbits too? i feel bad that hobbits are treated has northman in TA

Hobbit were not significantly war like enough to be their own faction. And they are not a big enough entity to have whole building lines dedicated to them.

About the idea, I think it is interesting, yet doesn't it get complicated when you start to combine different faction's weapons and units?

I'd like to hear some more opinions on this first..

Evan

[Protestant Knight]

I think it is a good idea kinda like the Teutonic and Britannia campaign recruting stiles comebind, all you would have to do for unites is to make Gondor,Rohan unites AoR kinda like in the Britannia campaign wen Scotland could recrute English Knights and Billman

[Æsir]

As Pentecostal said - it's nothing new, it's called AoR. The best example IMO is Rome: Total Realism (mod of Rome: Total War). In Asia Minor you can recruit Persian units, in Gallia - Gallic etc. I hope advanced AoR system will be implemented in TA:TW some day.

[Seleukos_I.]

I don't hope so. Only for some human units and not for all facions.

[Æsir]

I don't hope so. Only for some human units and not for all facions.

Of course AoR must be lorewise.

[Ozzmosis]

As Pentecostal said - it's nothing new, it's called AoR. The best example IMO is Rome: Total Realism (mod of Rome: Total War). In Asia Minor you can recruit Persian units, in Gallia - Gallic etc. I hope advanced AoR system will be implemented in TA:TW some day.

In RR/RC there is AoR to an extent: dol amroth units only in dol amroth, pinnath gelin units only in pinnath gelin, blackroot units only in Erech/Calembel and mithlond warriors only in mithlond.

[Æsir]

In RR/RC there is AoR to an extent: dol amroth units only in dol amroth, pinnath gelin units only in pinnath gelin, blackroot units only in Erech/Calembel and mithlond warriors only in mithlond.

It's the primitive AoR. I'm speaking on advanced AoR that regulates recruitment options in newly conquered settlements, not in native provinces.

[Ozzmosis]

It's the primitive AoR. I'm speaking on advanced AoR that regulates recruitment options in newly conquered settlements, not in native provinces.

Like in EB? now that was a good AoR system, and just generally brilliant overall.

[Æsir]

Like in EB? now that was a good AoR system, and just generally brilliant overall.

I havn't played EB, but R:Total Realism instead. Still I think, yes - that's the same system of AoR. Yes, brilliant, as you said.

[Outlawstar15a2]

I think the current recruitment system is the best. And is quite realistic since the culture represents a civilization. When the culture level reaches a certain point you unlock additional units with some units exclusive to certain provinces of groups of provinces. The culture represents the percentage of the population now made of your people not the percentage that converted to your way of life.

[Beorn]

Basically, mid to low tier units of Rohan and Gondor as Elves, and also "hired" generals acting as local governors, but it need such a work that hasn't be made by any other team besides EB and I doubt that TATW will ever become something more that great graphics and fun battles.....

[Æsir]

Basically, mid to low tier units of Rohan and Gondor as Elves, and also "hired" generals acting as local governors, but it need such a work that hasn't be made by any other team besides EB and I doubt that TATW will ever become something more that great graphics and fun battles.....

Are you throwing white glove on KK?
Besides - RTR team did it also.

[Atli]

What I’m proposing is almost the same system used in EB, but that’s more complex than an AoR system. In EB, when you conquer a settlement, you choose between three or four types of government for that region; your choice determines which units you will be able to recruit later in that settlement. For example, this chart shows the options for nomadic factions:

http://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/nomad-gov_chart.jpg

It doesn’t have to be so complex for TATW. If I were to do this myself (and I’m seriously starting to think of it, but I do not know much of modding) I’d start with something simple:

1. For the regions usually associated with northern culture (Rohan, Dale, Rhovanion...):
a. Give the Elves and Dwarves a new building that can only be built in these regions, a northern governmental structure like an assembly (maybe “assembly hall” or “thingstead”?). This building would increase the northmen culture and exclude the possibility to build elven/dwarven culture buildings.
b. When this building is completed (that is, the new government is established), you can then build “northern” barracks and stables, where you could recruit a few northern units (spear militia, axemen, a not too powerful heavy cavalry...)

2. For the regions usually associated with dúnedainic culture (Gondor, maybe parts of Eriador):
a. The Elves and Dwarves could build in these regions something like a “council” building. This building would increase the dúnedainic culture and exclude the possibility to build elven/dwarven culture buildings.
b. When this building is completed you can then build “dúnedainic” barracks and stables where you could recruit a few dúnedainic units.

[illeria]

Very intresting ideas i'd like to see them implemented in the MOD if the nodders are up to it

[Atli]

Did anyone see my last post with the link to what they did for the nomadic factions in Europa Barbarorum? It was probably eclipsed by Æsir and Outlaw’s conversation about the use of female avatars...
Well, that (the EB system of government types) is what I’d like to have for the elven factions and maybe the dwarves. I want to try to do a less ambitious version that gives the elven factions an alternative path where they support the region’s human population and culture and don’t repopulate it with elves, allowing them to recruit northern or dúnedainic units, depending on the region.
Could some experienced modder give some advice about which files must be modified, or recommend a modding tutorial?

[athanaric]

Did anyone see my last post with the link to what they did for the nomadic factions in Europa Barbarorum?

I think it's an excellent idea, and one that has proven itself to be worth the expense, not only in EB (my favourite) and RTR, but also - in a slightly different form - in FATW, the most realistic Middle-Earth mod out there. I'd be really happy to see it in TATW, too.

[SigniferOne]

How is the AOR idea realistic? If Gondor conquers Rohan, why should Rohanese units fight for it? Are they not far too proud to fight for who are effectively their enemy? It makes no sense. The only reason EB and RTR had recourse to the AOR system is because they didn't have the religious/cultural system instead; they had to use that, to limit wildfire recruitment somehow.

The culture system makes far more sense. If you conquer a province, who among it should fight for you? No one! That is the only reasonable thing to do! Thus you'd have to slowly convert the province to your ways, make their people more like yours, attuned to your values, etc, and that is precisely what the cultural system does. It's extremely realistic. Again the only reason EB and RTR had recourse to the old AOR is simply because they had no other choice.