Infiltrating Mecca as a Non Muslim

**~~Exarch~~** · November 21, 2009, 09:27 AM

As your average, adventurous youth, i, as a non muslim would like to visit Mecca and see it for myself, perhaps even respect the customs and practice the rituals at the Hajj, but there's a problem, y'see.
i am an infidel-an atheist; a non muslims

Now there's been accounts of ppl infiltrating Mecca and pulling it off in history but in this day and age of terrorism and police state, how would one go about taking th eHajj as a non muslim without converting to islam (since apostasy may end up with death so i've heard lol).

And what are the penalties if caught?

**Elrond** · November 21, 2009, 09:48 AM

I would advise strongly against it. If you put what your planning to do into perspective you should realise its a really stupid thing to do. Its just not worth the serous risks or monetary cost.

**Shams al-Ma'rifa** · November 21, 2009, 09:51 AM

Well you have to recite the shahada as you enter, then some other stuff so technically you are a muslim as you enter the mecca...

**~~Arch-hereticK~~** · November 21, 2009, 10:08 AM

It'd certainly would be an interesting experience for you.
I'd do it, but I just don't care.

**Thalassocrat** · November 21, 2009, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by mkesadaran

Well you have to recite the shahada as you enter, then some other stuff so technically you are a muslim as you enter the mecca...

I know Khalil Al Walid converted by reciting the Shahada but I think you have to do it sincerely

**motiv-8** · November 21, 2009, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by Thalassocrat

I know Khalil Al Walid converted by reciting the Shahada but I think you have to do it sincerely

Sincerity is subjective and not qualitative in any case. The base line requirement for conversion is the shahada in the presence of I believe four Muslim witnesses.

**Shams al-Ma'rifa** · November 21, 2009, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by Thalassocrat

I know Khalil Al Walid converted by reciting the Shahada but I think you have to do it sincerely

That's how everyone converts to islam lol

**Arto** · November 23, 2009, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by mkesadaran

Well you have to recite the shahada as you enter, then some other stuff so technically you are a muslim as you enter the mecca...

/end thread

**Claudius Gothicus** · November 21, 2009, 10:31 AM

Grow a beard

**motiv-8** · November 21, 2009, 10:50 AM

Entering a sovereign country with intent to break that country's laws is probably not something you want to announce intent of beforehand.

**Thalassocrat** · November 21, 2009, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by motiv-8

Entering a sovereign country with intent to break that country's laws is probably not something you want to announce intent of beforehand.

Well if we wanna get into it, I really doubt the Thread Starter will do it, no offence

**Helm** · November 21, 2009, 11:15 AM

Just convert to Islam while you're there, it's not like can prove you're not a Muslim.

**Heinz Guderian** · November 21, 2009, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by Exarch

As your average, adventurous youth, i, as a non muslim would like to visit Mecca and see it for myself, perhaps even respect the customs and practice the rituals at the Hajj, but there's a problem, y'see.
i am an infidel-an atheist; a non muslims

Now there's been accounts of ppl infiltrating Mecca and pulling it off in history but in this day and age of terrorism and police state, how would one go about taking th eHajj as a non muslim without converting to islam (since apostasy may end up with death so i've heard lol).

And what are the penalties if caught?

i think this is do-able. If you are an american white boy, they probably wont do anything to you since the saudi government is subservient to the american white male. if you are brown/chinese and dont hold a valid american passport, then your need an exfil plan.

I suggest trying to make it to the Gulf states if you get caught. have a jeep on standby filled with fuel (you can basically suck fuel out of the ground there) and then head north east. Cross during the dark. The Belt of Orion is pretty prominent in the desert sky, this will guide you as a marker.

Alternatively, you can try make it the shorter distance to Egypt. But your gonna need a bigger boat.

**~~Ummon~~** · November 21, 2009, 11:21 AM

Not exactly a brilliant idea, and not very respectful either.

**Marie Louise von Preussen** · November 21, 2009, 11:29 AM

Why, you ask? Why NOT? Pack your suits and do it, if you feel brave enough. Just remember to pee while sitting down, that's how Arabs do it... And presumably that would make you look like you are well acquainted with their customs and rise less suspicion

.

**Helm** · November 21, 2009, 01:01 PM

Wear suitably Islamic clothes, grow a beard perhaps, you're in.

Not that there is all that much in there of interest, some kind of meteorite they have cut into a cube shape you have to blow kisses at. And you have a small risk of being crushed to death in the crowds while you're there. You're better of going to Disney Land really, you're not exactly getting the spirtual fulfilment as a non-Muslim.

**Stavroforos** · November 21, 2009, 01:06 PM

Tell Las Vegas to open a Hajj replica and go there.

**Dracula** · November 21, 2009, 01:20 PM

Unfortunately a "try" first hand at religion many times ends up with convergation. You want to see the daemon, you see it. But that's not good for you.