foe phalanxes

**wupwup** · November 21, 2009, 07:33 AM

first of all best mod ever!! a bit buggy still by the looks of it (but might be my install) but still fantastic. love they styleistic look. its like being in a painting. but anyways back to my question. how do you guys handle phalanxes? im playing as rome and at the begining i find it verry hard to fight grece out of italy. the elephants are hard but not impossible. but they have 3/4 phalanx units i just cant break. even after the rest of their army has. i can surround them, bomnard them with javlins and charge them with cavalry all at once and they wont break.

in a battle today i had 16 units to take on 3 of these and my units just broke and ran for the hills. also javlins should do more damage shouldnt they? they are good against cavlry but from what i can tell anything with a sheild or armour is impervious to them.

**Caligula Caesar** · November 21, 2009, 10:10 AM

I found the same against Carthage. I routed most of their army, until they had two liby phoenicians and a sacred band left, in total around 150 men, against about 800 men, and they wouldn't brake.

**mcantu** · November 21, 2009, 10:31 AM

what difficulty levels are you two playing at?

**Quinn Inuit** · November 21, 2009, 10:40 AM

I had the same problem with Pyrrhus's phalangites, especially the asthetairoi, on M/M.

To defeat them, I tried to have as many go off and chase my light Oscans as possible while I defeated the rest of the army, then turned my entire surviving force on the phalangites (battle started with a full stack on each side, and maybe 75% of my army was still alive at the time), threw all my remaining pila at the them (even while they were in melee and it would kill some of my guys), and repeatedly charged them from the rear with any cav I had left. They eventually got ground down.

**mcantu** · November 21, 2009, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by Quinn Inuit

I had the same problem with Pyrrhus's phalangites, especially the asthetairoi, on M/M.

To defeat them, I tried to have as many go off and chase my light Oscans as possible while I defeated the rest of the army, then turned my entire surviving force on the phalangites (battle started with a full stack on each side, and maybe 75% of my army was still alive at the time), threw all my remaining pila at the them (even while they were in melee and it would kill some of my guys), and repeatedly charged them from the rear with any cav I had left. They eventually got ground down.

if it was in the 1st battle, the AI is given some decent xp and armor upgrades...

**mcantu** · November 21, 2009, 10:56 AM

thats interesting because the asthetairoi have morale lower than principes and the same discipline level...

**FriendlyFire** · November 21, 2009, 10:59 AM

Make sure that any unit facing a phalanx's spears is on guard mode, so they get maximum defense. Also, if you're sending multiple units against a few phalanx, don't send them all at once, cycle them in and out as soon as they get tired. Against 3 phalanx I'd have 3 units from the front on guard mode to pin them, 3 units hitting them from the flank and sides, and the rest waiting their turn. Finally, if you're using cavalry charges make sure you leave an opening in the melee for them, i.e. try to leave one flank of the phalanx unengaged by your infantry, and hit that flank with your cavalry. The value of a charge is the number of casualties it inflicts in a very short time causing a unit to waver and break. If the cavalry have to charge through a melee to get to their targets, the casualties are spread over a longer time and the target is less likely to break.

**wupwup** · November 21, 2009, 11:02 AM

well currently at VH VH. but they where verry hard to rout on medium in my first campaign. i know they get a +7 moral and attack on VH so thats probably it. and dose anyone else think pilla are underpowered. there should be a way to make them take away sheilds. but thats probably impossible. is there any way you can addapt moral damage so that it takes away defence instead? pila used to decimate enemies.

there was a battle in budicas rebelion where they had the romans trapped. the first charge was decimated by javlin fire and they routed. they attacaked several times again but the first would have been the most powerful and it was completely oblitorated

**wupwup** · November 21, 2009, 12:01 PM

well it wasnt in that battle. but it was that army. however i sent my army up to rome to be retrained so they had 3/4 experience +bronze weapons and armour (most anywas). they still wouldnt budge. although it is easier with unexperienced phalanxes. so yeah what im saying is i cant defeat the army after the first battle because of those phalanxes,

**Pat89** · November 21, 2009, 06:23 PM

Originally Posted by wupwup

a bit buggy still by the looks of it (but might be my install)

buggy?

And you have installed the 1.2 patch? If you have any bugs, then please report them so we can look into it

**wupwup** · November 21, 2009, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by PatricianS

buggy?

And you have installed the 1.2 patch? If you have any bugs, then please report them so we can look into it

just random ctd's at randomm times. after battles, in enemy turns e.c.t. next time it happens i will report it for you

**wupwup** · November 22, 2009, 02:11 PM

Ok. Dont know if anyone will read this in te but im having the most epic battle ever. I started again on H/H and lost the first battle. Ive just got my main army shipped in from rome and attacked the reminants of that first greek army. It was a fantastic night battle and i have nearly won. BUT the enemy have 4 units of hoplites. (epeirote pezhetairio) each with around 200 men. They also have a few slingers at the other end of the map but some tirari are dealing with them. Ive paused the game and have 12 units ready to charge. They range from 30 to 140 men. Some are exhausted and some winded. A wide variety of troops with decent upgrades. And i have a balista. So sorry if im a bit vauge but what sholud i do with these 10 mins? Cheers

**Brusilov** · November 22, 2009, 02:19 PM

I'd suggest that you let the units rest up before you charge them in - that's if the units that are engaging them can hold out. As others have posted before when facing a phalanx just put your units on 'guard mode' - they won't kill many opponents but they won't take as many casualties and won't tire so quickly.

If you attack a phalanx from the side or rear make sure that 'guard mode' is off and let them have it.

As for what to do with 10 minutes - some fresh air and exercise may be the best thing....

**wupwup** · November 22, 2009, 02:52 PM

i meant i had 10 mins left on the counter before they ran. i was planning to shoot them with my balista but it was out of ammo so i charged them from all angles with all but one unit. my men broke but regrouped and attacked again. again they broke and in the end i lost it by the clock (not that more time would have helped). worst thing is i just looked to see who is back in their army. ALL THEIR ELEPHANTS!!!. i guess because i killed them first. but its god damn annoying. so i reloaded and fought in day. much easier. the major problem last time was couldt see what i was doing and because of the trees there was a verry small place i could put my ballistas and i couldnt see it untill halfway through the battle. looked like i was going to win but then it ctded. out of interest are fire bolts or normal bolts better at outright killing? forgeting moral?