Merge with FOE!

[AqD]

.... Should begin next week, after I finish all the troubling works. (permission has been granted many months ago)

FOE elements to merge into the mod:

• Battle Environment:
  • Sky: assume it's unchanged since TIC, the sky is done and you're already playing with it!
  • Ground texture: I think this one is missing in FOE. Anyone found it??
  • Grass: no merge. I hate grass!
  • Venegation: no merge. It seems slow in FOE and I hate trees in battle
  
  
• Campaign Environment:
  • Terrain texture: I'm not sure if this has been done before. May replace it with something different later
  • Character models: undecided
  
  
• Unit skins: Initially all FOE units with unit cards and text descriptions will be added, whether you can find them in FOE or not. Eventually all other hidden units should be added as well.
• Unit items: FOE comes with a lot of whole new items, such as shields with depth, historically-correct swords, spears, etc. They will be re-used in new units!

Many of RTR units can be directly substituted with FOE skin and text. The armour/weapon stats would be adjusted according to their appearance, however, the total battle stats would be kept the same if possible.

The last task is to rebalance barbarian unit stats. The current mod setup - elite warriors plus a lot of cheap levies - is wrong, or unsuitable. The recruitment zones for them need to be fixed too.





Post your comments here!

[florin80]

The current setup - elite warriors plus a lot of cheap levies - is wrong, or unsuitable (it's based on Caesar's conquest of gauls ).

And what would you replace it with? Could you give me a brief example for the gauls?

[AqD]

And what would you replace it with? Could you give me a brief example for the gauls?

Just some changes in the unit stats. I think the Celts during the invasion of italy and galatians would be better examples for game balancing. They may be ill-equipped, but the combat capability and morale should be higher - and the number lower, especially for units from the warrior class. For instance, an average gallic warrior should be able to easily beat macedonian phalangite or roman hastati in melee due to many years of experience and superior swordsmanship

[Emperor Domitianus]

Are you to incluse even other units from FOE?

[AqD]

Are you to incluse even other units from FOE?

All of the new ones should be added eventually, except for imperial romans

It's great.
Does it replace ver2.5 or for next version 2.6?

How about buildings of FOE such as industrial valiation or political system? I think that feature of FOE is also interesting.

I would like to have a similar system. But so far I have not been able to design a historically-accurate system for non-Roman factions.

And I think it better to convert faction of Greek city states to Epeiros if the campaign begins about 280BC.
Or treat GCS as alliance of Sparta and Aetolian League and Macedon faction will include their ally, Achaean League.

It will be v3.0, alongwith new Saka, Mauryan empire from Res Gestae, Indo-Greek units, overhauled Bosporan faction, early Parthians, and Pergamon kingdom.

The campaign will begin at 240BC, 20 years before the reform is triggered. The units of FOE epirus will be given to Pergamon or Greek city states - the two may be merged, because Pergamon kingdom was nothing more than a city state before Romans came to it

[mochi]

It's great.
Does it replace ver2.5 or for next version 2.6?

How about buildings of FOE such as industrial valiation or political system? I think that feature of FOE is also interesting.
And I think it better to convert faction of Greek city states to Epeiros if the campaign begins about 280BC.
Or treat GCS as alliance of Sparta and Aetolian League and Macedon faction will include their ally, Achaean League.

[The Guy With No Imagination]

i beg to differ, but its your mod, not mine

[AqD]

@The Guy With No Imagination: you mean the pergamon? But how should it be made unique, different from all other factions including Pontus, Greek cites, and Macedon? (I decided to leave the thracians along, btw)

[The Guy With No Imagination]

@The Guy With No Imagination: you mean the pergamon? But how should it be made unique, different from all other factions including Pontus, Greek cites, and Macedon? (I decided to leave the thracians along, btw)

OK, so what your saying is pergamon has a greek/thracian roster right now, ok. to make it unique, i think you could stracth it just a bit. Gastraphetioi (whatevere) half a cataphract(a semi cataphract unit) then just add Phrygian cavalry, lydian cavalry, lydian Uazaly (something like that) and a few galatian troops since they were the only ones to repel them, and they were their naibors. And i beleive pergamon kept them in check( I may be incorrect)


I think this is a unique blend, what say you?

[Emperor Domitianus]

I didn't know FOE will have Imperial Roman soldiers....

[Tony83]

I didn't know FOE will have Imperial Roman soldiers....

The FOE campaign won't have Imperial Romans but we do plan to make Quetzalcoatl's excellent roster available in Custom Battles, they just weren't ready in time for FOE 1.

Just call it a present for our multi-player community.

[AqD]

Check FOE folder and you'll find a lot of hidden units - new Macedonians, Pontic general, Imperial Roman units etc

[Pat89]

The last task is to rebalance barbarian unit stats. The current setup - elite warriors plus a lot of cheap levies - is wrong, or unsuitable (it's based on Caesar's conquest of gauls ).

No it's not.

The zero-recruitment-cost for barbarian factions was introduced because of their ability to quickly raise armies. This has absolutely nothing to do with it being based on Caessar's Gallic campaign. I'm not a historian at all, but if I'm not mistaking, the idea comes from Clearchus of Sparta and has been approved by HamilcarBarca and Vindafarna... In other words, our history team. Just calling this "wrong" is for that reason imo not a very valid statement.
However, it's your mod, so do with the costs whatever you want...

However if you come with valid arguments which would convince HB, Vinda and CoS, then who knows we will change this for the FoE expansion... Not likely... But who knows

[AqD]

No it's not.

The zero-recruitment-cost for barbarian factions was introduced because of their ability to quickly raise armies. This has absolutely nothing to do with it being based on Caessar's Gallic campaign. I'm not a historian at all, but if I'm not mistaking, the idea comes from Clearchus of Sparta and has been approved by HamilcarBarca and Vindafarna... In other words, our history team. Just calling this "wrong" is for that reason imo not a very valid statement.

But how can the majority of iberian and gallic warriors be raised and replenished faster than Roman citizen soldiers or greek hoplites/thureophoroi? Aren't the warror class of the celtic society the only ones who can fight under normal circumstance, while most of roman/greek citizens are obliged to fight whenever there is a battle?


I'm not arguging against the zero-recruitment-cost, or how the faster-leving capability should implemented. But it seems the origianl RTR setup about barbarians being a bunch of ill-trained and hot-headed guys is not correct.

[Clearchus of Sparta]

But how can the majority of iberian and gallic warriors be raised and replenished faster than Roman citizen soldiers or greek hoplites/thureophoroi? Aren't the warror class of the celtic society the only ones who can fight under normal circumstance, while most of roman/greek citizens are obliged to fight whenever there is a battle?


I'm not arguging against the zero-recruitment-cost, or how the faster-leving capability should implemented. But it seems the origianl RTR setup about barbarians being a bunch of ill-trained and hot-headed guys is not correct.

Actually, this is exactly what they were to some extent.
The warrior culture of the keltoi was based on individual prowess. This is how warlords were able to become powerful chieftains. Eveyone loved a winner so if you won more fights (and most were just cattle raids) you attracted more followers.

Relationships with other tribes were more like trade links or where a strong tribe would support a weaker tribe offering it protection in return for warriors or favourable trade conditions.

The gallic tribes relied upon their initial charge to break the enemy and as the romans found out, if this didnt work, they were liable to drift away or leave. "Initial Charge" doesnt really do it justice though.
Thousands of armed, battle crazed, screaming fanatics (which is what it would have looked like to the Romans) hell bent on removing your head from your shoulders. If youve ever seen a mob on the rampage, I imagine it would be similar. Except, youre in the front line of the riot police.

The celtiberians would use hit and run tactics. They were used to the conditions and terrain and would often during the course of one battle, retire and then charge again.

Dont under-estimate them tho. It took Rome approximately 100 years to fully subdue Celtiberia

They were not trained or drilled like roman militia

We tried to recreate those characteristics in the Keltoi in FOE.

The replenishment comes from the population growth/farming levels and Rome is higher than any keltoi lands meaning it can replenish losses more quickly.
The zero recruitment cost only allows the player to queue up more units without cost so in desperate times, they can call upon large numbers of men, but it only builds one unit per turn. The MAIN feature, is that if low on cash, you can still recruit a fair sized army, since the production queue will continue even if you fall below zero cash

[mochi]

Will the merged version of 2.5 release before 2.6?

[AqD]

@Clearchus of Sparta: thanks!

@mochi: merge with next version of course, not 2.5 It will take a lot of time to merge the units and make them consistent with existing ones.

[AqD]

Here are some progress: all Carthaginian units units have been merged, with changed hoplite/cavalry models for overhand animations.

[Tony83]

I'd just like to point out the the Carthaginian African Reform unit shown above was actually donated by Tone of Roma Surrectum, when our orginal was lost in a computer crash. I'm sorry for any confusion caused but it may be best if you let Tone know that you are using it.

Nice work by the way. I like the side cords on the linothorax of the other model.

[Emperor Domitianus]

Those units are wonderfull. Can wait to see the final release.