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Thread: Death certificate is imprinted on the Shroud of Turin, says Vatican scholar

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  1. #1
    DAVIDE's Avatar QVID MELIVS ROMA?
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    Default Death certificate is imprinted on the Shroud of Turin, says Vatican scholar

    A Vatican scholar claims to have deciphered the "death certificate" imprinted on the Shroud of Turin, or Holy Shroud, a linen cloth revered by Christians and held by many to bear the image of the crucified Jesus.
    Dr Barbara Frale, a researcher in the Vatican secret archives, said "I think I have managed to read the burial certificate of Jesus the Nazarene, or Jesus of Nazareth." She said that she had reconstructed it from fragments of Greek, Hebrew and Latin writing imprinted on the cloth together with the image of the crucified man.
    The shroud, which is kept in the royal chapel of Turin Cathedral and is to be put in display next Spring, is regarded by many scholars as a medieval forgery. A 1988 carbon dating of a fragment of the cloth dated it to the Middle Ages.
    However Dr Frale, who is to publish her findings in a new book, La Sindone di Gesu Nazareno (The Shroud of Jesus of Nazareth) said that the inscription provided "historical date consistent with the Gospels account". The letters, barely visible to the naked eye, were first spotted during an examination of the shroud in 1978, and others have since come to light.

    Some scholars have suggested that the writing is from a reliquary attached to the cloth in medieval times. But Dr Frale said that the text could not have been written by a medieval Christian because it did not refer to Jesus as Christ but as "the Nazarene". This would have been "heretical" in the Middle Ages since it defined Jesus as "only a man" rather than the Son of God.
    Like the image of the man himself the letters are in reverse and only make sense in negative photographs. Dr Frale told La Repubblica that under Jewish burial practices current at the time of Christ in a Roman colony such as Palestine, a body buried after a death sentence could only be returned to the family after a year in a common grave.
    A death certificate was therefore glued to the burial shroud to identify it for later retrieval, and was usually stuck to the cloth around the face. This had apparently been done in the case of Jesus even though he was buried not in a common grave but in the tomb offered by Joseph of Arimathea.
    Dr Frale said that many of the letters were missing, with Jesus for example referred to as "(I)esou(s) Nnazarennos" and only the "iber" of "Tiberiou" surviving. Her reconstruction, however, suggested that the certificate read: "In the year 16 of the reign of the Emperor Tiberius Jesus the Nazarene, taken down in the early evening after having been condemned to death by a Roman judge because he was found guilty by a Hebrew authority, is hereby sent for burial with the obligation of being consigned to his family only after one full year". It ends "signed by" but the signature has not survived.
    Dr Frale said that the use of three languages was consistent with the polyglot nature of a community of Greek-speaking Jews in a Roman colony. Best known for her studies of the Knights Templar, who she claims at one stage preserved the shroud, she said what she had deciphered was "the death sentence on a man called Jesus the Nazarene. If that man was also Christ the Son of God it is beyond my job to establish. I did not set out to demonstrate the truth of faith. I am a Catholic, but all my teachers have been atheists or agnostics, and the only believer among them was a Jew. I forced myself to work on this as I would have done on any other archaeological find."
    The Catholic Church has never either endorsed the Turin Shroud or rejected it as inauthentic. Pope John Paul II arranged for public showings in 1998 and 2000, saying: "The Shroud is an image of God's love as well as of human sin. The imprint left by the tortured body of the Crucified One, which attests to the tremendous human capacity for causing pain and death to one's fellow man, stands as an icon of the suffering of the innocent in every age." Pope Benedict XVI is to pray before the Shroud when it is put on show again next Spring in Turin.

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    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/com...cle6925371.ece

  2. #2

    Default Re: Death certificate is imprinted on the Shroud of Turin, says Vatican scholar

    Interesting...
    قرطاج يجب ان تدمر

  3. #3
    cfmonkey45's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Death certificate is imprinted on the Shroud of Turin, says Vatican scholar

    Most intriguing.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Death certificate is imprinted on the Shroud of Turin, says Vatican scholar

    LOL @shroud of turin

  5. #5

    Default Re: Death certificate is imprinted on the Shroud of Turin, says Vatican scholar

    seeing want she wants to see, no doubt.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Death certificate is imprinted on the Shroud of Turin, says Vatican scholar

    I suppose someone should perform some dating techniques on that shroud again.

    Just for clarity.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Death certificate is imprinted on the Shroud of Turin, says Vatican scholar

    Im pretty sure some scientists in Italy have already comfirmed it as a fake.

    And they reproduced there own shroud using the same techniques.

    And the shroud they created was an exact replica of the original.

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    Default Re: Death certificate is imprinted on the Shroud of Turin, says Vatican scholar

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Of Atheos View Post
    or someone should point out that, when viewing the whole shroud, greaves are visible (at least to me and a handful of others) and if anyone can answer me why jesus would be wearing medieval greaves on his wrists gets my exclusive Penthouse in heaven for four millenia.
    What greaves?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wizav85 View Post
    Im pretty sure some scientists in Italy have already comfirmed it as a fake.

    And they reproduced there own shroud using the same techniques.

    And the shroud they created was an exact replica of the original.
    Apparently, they are second-guessing the radiocarbon dating, seeing as parts of it were mended and that it survived a fire in a monastery.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Death certificate is imprinted on the Shroud of Turin, says Vatican scholar

    Apparently, they are second-guessing the radiocarbon dating, seeing as parts of it were mended and that it survived a fire in a monastery
    No im talking about the scientists who reproduced the shroud to see how it was done and if it was possible.

    Cause apparently the detail on it is impossible and its a sign of its holyness.

    The scientists however proved that its quite easy to produce a shroud of turin using the same techniques that would of been used so there's nothing unique about it atall.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Death certificate is imprinted on the Shroud of Turin, says Vatican scholar

    or someone should point out that, when viewing the whole shroud, greaves are visible (at least to me and a handful of others) and if anyone can answer me why jesus would be wearing medieval greaves on his wrists gets my exclusive Penthouse in heaven for four millenia.

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    Monarchist's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: Death certificate is imprinted on the Shroud of Turin, says Vatican scholar

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Of Atheos View Post
    or someone should point out that, when viewing the whole shroud, greaves are visible (at least to me and a handful of others) and if anyone can answer me why jesus would be wearing medieval greaves on his wrists gets my exclusive Penthouse in heaven for four millenia.
    Greaves are lower-leg coverings, and have nothing to do with the hands. Either you've totally made this up as a rhetorical tool against the Shroud, or have simply mixed your armour terminology up. Given your other posts, I think it might be the former, but I can't really say.
    "Pauci viri sapientiae student."
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    Default Re: Death certificate is imprinted on the Shroud of Turin, says Vatican scholar

    Quote Originally Posted by Winterlight View Post
    Greaves are lower-leg coverings, and have nothing to do with the hands. Either you've totally made this up as a rhetorical tool against the Shroud, or have simply mixed your armour terminology up. Given your other posts, I think it might be the former, but I can't really say.
    actually it was my understanding that greaves were both leg and arm plates/wrappings. so i would file that under "mixed up armour terminology" given that my post obviously directed attention to the wrists/arms

    and please, if you are going to insinuate that im a liar, something i vehemently detest then please use factual evidence and not rhetoric or ill likely become offended.
    jesus wouldnt offend me, or anyone else for that matter; would you?

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    Default Re: Death certificate is imprinted on the Shroud of Turin, says Vatican scholar

    I once saw a program on the BBC about this, a serious program and as much as you can learn anything from TV it was fascinating.

    It had to do with its history, possible and compelling links to a similar religious artefact in Spain whose provenance could be traced back much earlier then the carbon dating. How the shroud was actually folded, very close to a style that would be used in Jewish burials and quite a few other observations that certainly make it a very interesting object to investigate.

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    MaximiIian's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Death certificate is imprinted on the Shroud of Turin, says Vatican scholar

    If the current shroud is a replica of Jesus of Nazareth's original death shroud, as Wizav proposes, that would explain the "death certificate" discovered by this man. As well as the age, which has been dated to the late middle ages. Though there are other issues with the thing, including textual criticism against it; I guess that's why the RCC has never confirmed nor denied it as what some claim it to be.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Death certificate is imprinted on the Shroud of Turin, says Vatican scholar

    i remember viewing the shroud from further out, moreso than what is widespread on the internet.
    you can see the arms crossed over the chest, with a sharp diamond shape visible on the wrists.
    i see these as greaves

  16. #16

    Default Re: Death certificate is imprinted on the Shroud of Turin, says Vatican scholar

    Didn't they actually prove that was a medieval fake via science?

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Death certificate is imprinted on the Shroud of Turin, says Vatican scholar

    Quote Originally Posted by Helm View Post
    Didn't they actually prove that was a medieval fake via science?
    Well, they proved the cloth of the shroud dates to the middle ages. But that still leaves a lot of other possibilities- i.e., it might be a copy of an older death shroud that either was destroyed or decayed.

  18. #18
    vizi's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Death certificate is imprinted on the Shroud of Turin, says Vatican scholar

    I recall watching some documentary where scientists claimed it was a fake. And then it was disputed by a couple of amateurs because the scientist's used a small section that had a different weave pattern and used a slightly different linen...thus leading to the 'fire in the monastery and afterwards restored' that was mentioned in this thread.

    Most likely it is a fake, but whatever floats your boat is fine with me. It might be real, but I personally doubt it.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Death certificate is imprinted on the Shroud of Turin, says Vatican scholar

    Interestingly enough it was in fact a very early attempt at a photograph. Hence why you get this effect, it was a negative.


  20. #20

    Default Re: Death certificate is imprinted on the Shroud of Turin, says Vatican scholar

    But if you have a look at the facts of science you can see how the Shroud of Turin was made.

    http://www.shroud.com/pdfs/orvieto.pdf

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