Discussion on the "Relevance" of the new EU

[Exarch]

Ever since the Lisbon II Treaty was ratified, most of our european friends on TWC have hailed it and looked forward to it in glee and i, for one, am happy for them.

However, it appears that one of their chief reason(s) for wanting a united EU is to stay relevant in this day and age and i must ask:
why is it important for your country(ies) to throw weight around on the scale the united states did back in the 90s?? is it not enough to have a comfortable lifestyle, to have the highest standards of living the world over?
Q: why is it important for you to stay relevant relative to other countries?
i mean look at Canada, norway, australia, new zealand-we're not superpowers, nor do we seek it or more 'relevance' to the world. if anything the example of the United States has shown us that superpower-dom is as much a curse as it is a benefit.
we middle powers can still look out for our own interests and have no interest in hegemony-only for a comfortable standard of living which europeans already enjoy!

The New EU, post Lisbon II, means there'll be a President of the EU and a foreign minister for the EU-but so what? will anything really change from sarkozy/merkel opining about such and such and a franco-deutschland backed EU president mouthing off the same things?
will this make the EU more democratic?
will EU citiens be allowed to have a voice in who becomes EU president?
food for thought...

discuss

[Helm]

In a capitalist world it's important to stay ahead of the competition, not that the EU is purely capitalistic as you have more socialist prinicipals of economic and political cooperation between differnt states.

[Exarch]

In a capitalist world it's important to stay ahead of the competition, not that the EU is purely capitalistic as you have more socialist prinicipals of economic and political cooperation between differnt states.

indeed
which is why the EU is great as a trade bloc, as a strong anti-trust watchdog and all this was pre lisbon 2

[ShockBlast]

In a capitalist world it's important to stay ahead of the competition, not that the EU is purely capitalistic as you have more socialist prinicipals of economic and political cooperation between differnt states.

Other then the demand and offer feature of the free market economy nothing is capitalist about EU and as a general rule there has never been a country that was capitalist or one that used a free market economy form USA to Cuba all countries are mixed economies.
We tried lassie affair capitalism in the XIX century and we know who well that worked so saying that x country is capitalist because has a more relaxed fiscal policy is wrong.

[Thorn777]

look at Canada, norway, australia, new zealand-we're not superpowers

Small population numbers and lots of natural resources.

Add many etc's.

[Exarch]

Small population numbers and lots of natural resources.

Add many etc's.

the EU's soft power is worth a lot more than any old hard power

look at how many european companies have made it big abroad from hugo boss to BMW to siemens (lol)
and versace and etc etc
and universities and schools and cultural relics

point is, europe will always be 'relevant'

[Thorn777]

the EU's soft power is worth a lot more than any old hard power

I agree and the new EU wont change that. One might say, it would even reassure it for the coming decades ahead.

What good is being a soft-power when no one takes you serious?

look at how many european companies have made it big abroad from hugo boss to BMW to siemens (lol)
and versace and etc etc

Certainly, but those compete like hell globally, and their share in the national economy's they stem from declines and declines(thus tax revenues, jobs etc), while national-resources can keep well run nations with small population numbers wealthy on themselves.

and universities and schools and cultural relics

point is, europe will always be 'relevant'

Surely, but I remember a funny argument made by a Europhile ones: "lets make sure Europe doesn't just become an open museum for Chinese and Indians to visit".

[Exarch]

I agree and the new EU wont change that. One might say, it would even reassure it for the coming decades ahead.

What good is being a soft-power when no one takes you serious?

but ppl alreayd do take europe seriously, economically and financailly and culturally.
you dont necessarily need a major military power/carrier fleets etc to be taken seriosuly-in fact the soviet union overdid ther military power thing but that';s another thing for another topic lol.
how strong is the euro lately? where do overseas students usually go to study besides harvard/yale? you have a good tourist trap in france and italy etc,
EU as it is right now is no 'irrelevant little punk' who noone takes seriosuly.

Certainly, but those compete like hell globally, and their share in the national economy's they stem from declines and declines(thus tax revenues, jobs etc), while national-resources can keep well run nations with small population numbers wealthy on themselves.

european countries still play a prominent role outside of europe in terms of acquiring natural resources, tho
take france for example, it has interests in africa, even has the foreign legion to look out for its interests there (hence why they say you'll be guaranteeed action in the FL)

Surely, but I remember a funny argument made by a Europhile ones: "lets make sure Europe doesn't just become an open museum for Chinese and Indians to visit".

lol

[Thorn777]

but ppl alreayd do take europe seriously, economically and financailly and culturally.
you dont necessarily need a major military power/carrier fleets etc to be taken seriosuly-in fact the soviet union overdid ther military power thing but that';s another thing for another topic lol.
how strong is the euro lately? where do overseas students usually go to study besides harvard/yale? you have a good tourist trap in france and italy etc,
EU as it is right now is no 'irrelevant little punk' who noone takes seriosuly.

1)I'll doubt the EU is on its way to become a dominating military power like the US is right now and how the SU once was. Like I said before: it has every interest to strenghten the UN, trans-Atlantic alliance and international laws and stands fully behind them.

2)The treaty makes it easier to adapt to scenarios that could very well play out against our current standing in this globalised world. Points to your "G2 thread"...

3)The Euro is a big part of this "federalism".

european countries still play a prominent role outside of europe in terms of acquiring natural resources, tho
take france for example, it has interests in africa, even has the foreign legion to look out for its interests there (hence why they say you'll be guaranteeed action in the FL)

Well there you go...but not just France, dont forget the Neds, Iberians, and GB.

[Lance-Corporal Jones]

My thoughts exactly Exarch; only, instead of "hailing it and looking forward to it in glee," I am divided between cyanide and emigration.

[Treize]

I'd pick the ticket to Australia...

[Exarch]

I'd pick the ticket to Australia...

you're more than welcome, IPA

just to let you know, the australian immigration office will give priority to ppl with assets over 250,000AUD

i kid u not, look it up

[Lance-Corporal Jones]

you're more than welcome, IPA

just to let you know, the australian immigration office will give priority to ppl with assets over 250,000AUD

i kid u not, look it up

I'll probably be there by 2011 if things deteriorate (for instance, EU identity cards...)

[Exarch]

I'll probably be there by 2011 if things deteriorate (for instance, EU identity cards...)

being white and european, you probably wont have too much trouble
the popular method by brit ppl is usually this way:

1) be a backpacker,
2) find work, and/or become a 'student'
3) apply for residency

and voila, you've got a foot in the door, after about 10 yrs u get citizenship
no worries, we dont have no pledge or brainwashing rituals

@topic
caint you europeans protests/molotov cocktail to be able to directly vote for a EU president?

[Lance-Corporal Jones]

being white and european, you probably wont have too much trouble
the popular method by brit ppl is usually this way:

1) be a backpacker,
2) find work, and/or become a 'student'
3) apply for residency

and voila, you've got a foot in the door, after about 10 yrs u get citizenship
no worries, we dont have no pledge or brainwashing rituals

@topic
caint you europeans protests/molotov cocktail to be able to directly vote for a EU president?

Cheers!

Well, in fact, I don't even want to vote for a EU president -- I do not want an EU president in the first place! But did I get a say on that (Lisbon)? No, and neither did 499 million Europeans!

[Treize]

you're more than welcome, IPA

just to let you know, the australian immigration office will give priority to ppl with assets over 250,000AUD

i kid u not, look it up

I would join the army if they want me to...

Just a question, will they give you citizenship when you join the reserves instead of the standing army?

[Exarch]

I would join the army if they want me to...

Just a question, will they give you citizenship when you join the reserves instead of the standing army?

you want to join the australian army lol?
just to let you know our army lost a war against emus once

but our special forces are wicked, our SAS is unparalleled but you need citizenship to join the army.

you're dutch so you wont have too much trouble-it's like this understanding between certain countries; if our country gets along well with another country then the visa is cheap and it's easier to come and go as you please.

[Helm]

So when you feel your nationality being threatened you move to an entirely different nation altogether?

[Lance-Corporal Jones]

So when you feel your nationality being threatened you move to an entirely different nation altogether?

Watching the slow death of your own nation at the hands of obscure political interests is a painful thing.

[Pickle_mole]

Watching the slow death of your own nation at the hands of obscure political interests is a painful thing.

when do you guys vote for your president? oh wait...
Well at least the laws you make in your own country are only put against your own sovereign constition, its not like some beurocratic bloated and unrepresentative constitution formed in some country thousands of miles away could repeal a law you made in accordance to you sovereign right of rule over your country? oh wait....
i gues the silver lining is that they respect your votes, its not like you voted no on a universal constitution multiple times and they kept bringing it back with more bribes attached! oh wait...

I wonder how many political leaders and heroes and rolling in graves, sorry guys. feel bad for you LC jones, America welcomes you