Dear Brannigan, what is the world coming to?

[Dr Zoidberg]

Came across this article this morning over my morning coffee. Lets just say I almost ruined my Mac by coating it in coffee.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/societ...1119-iotc.html

What the hell is going on? First it was 'enlarge your manhood' emails online, now its 'design your own genitalia'.

Yet most revealed uncertainty about what ''normal'' women's genitalia should look like.

I wasn't aware there was a standard design template with such things...

That said though, the article actually raises some interesting issues such as the negativity surrounding female genitalia:

And as the shape of the vagina becomes a crazy new source of angst, we still don't even have an affectionate word to describe it. Where is the cosy, non-threatening equivalent to ''willy''? This linguistic absence speaks volumes about social attitudes towards female genitalia. Meanwhile, the c-word endures as a form of abuse.

Although I'm sure this post will be canned faster than a news report on Taiwanese independence on CCTV, I'd be interested in people's opinions as to strange new tangent in the search for 'beauty'.

[Bovril]

Its not that new. I think its a natural extention of the idea that the perfect female looks pubescent. The development of a 'longer' labia is assosiated with adulthood, and therefore undesireable according to popular acccounts of femininity. I think the article is naive not to note the importance of pornography, to which women as well as men are increasingly exposed, in propogating ideas about what vaginas should look like. However, this practice has been going on for a couple of decades now. Along with clitorectomies performed on infants, children and adults by western doctors, this practice constitutes our version of female genital mutilation. Less worying than African FGM, but still troubling.

[Dr Zoidberg]

You raise a good point about the influence of pornography. The article was naive not to include it. Any thoughts on how this 'the perfect female looks pubescent' has come about? It certainly hasn't been that way throughout history, the phrase 'Rubenesque-beuaty' springs to mind for example. The only thing I can think of is that it is somehow connected to fashion i.e. the best women to hang clothes are those with no hips, bum, breasts etc. A women with curves causes problems for designers therefore its easier to use skinny, 'pre-pubescent' looking models.

[S.L.I.G]

You raise a good point about the influence of pornography. The article was naive not to include it. Any thoughts on how this 'the perfect female looks pubescent' has come about? It certainly hasn't been that way throughout history, the phrase 'Rubenesque-beuaty' springs to mind for example. The only thing I can think of is that it is somehow connected to fashion i.e. the best women to hang clothes are those with no hips, bum, breasts etc. A women with curves causes problems for designers therefore its easier to use skinny, 'pre-pubescent' looking models.

Hm? People want women with curves, society just doesn't want one with too much fat, or hair. You want a women that looks like an athletic girl in the prime of her life, kept to the most pristine and clean of conditions. So yeah, that eventually led itself to being waxed. I don't see the idea of keeping it shaved down yonder is much different than "clean shaven" is for the face, the same kind of mentality. Anyways, I like my women looking- as you call it, not I- "pre pubescent", but all I can really do at this news is lawl. Its a funny thing how society can crush those pathetic enough to allow it.

[Bovril]

Its a funny thing how society can crush those pathetic enough to allow it.

"Those pathetic enough to allow it" include almost all women in the US and UK. Body satisfaction is at an all time historical low in these societies. The number of women satisfied with their bodies, even those 'in the prime of life' with healthy body weights is very low. Women reliably describe the ideal body weight as both lower than men and lower than what is healthy. Plastic surgery is a massive industry, and in certain places is entirely normalised. Huge amounts of money are spent on beauty snake oil, dieting which many women know is unhealthy, and so on. How is this 'funny'?

[S.L.I.G]

"Those pathetic enough to allow it" include almost all women in the US and UK. Body satisfaction is at an all time historical low in these societies. The number of women satisfied with their bodies, even those 'in the prime of life' with healthy body weights is very low. Women reliably describe the ideal body weight as both lower than men and lower than what is healthy. Plastic surgery is a massive industry, and in certain places is entirely normalised. Huge amounts of money are spent on beauty snake oil, dieting which many women know is unhealthy, and so on.

Yeah. I look down on most women because of that.

How is this 'funny'?

Cause I find it so?

[Bovril]

There are a number of ideas about the subject. They range from the simplistic -e.g. gay fasion designers want women to look boys- to the more nuanced and economically sound. For example, increased consumption amongst women and changes in gender roles made marketing unobtainable 'beauty' to women very profitable. Youthfulness, model style slimness, having large breasts whilst being skinny, etc. are all very hard to achieve for most women, but creating the aspiration towards these ideas can be very lucrative. There are other factors as well, but I think this is an important one.

[Sir Winston Churchill]

While I'm appalled women are so sensitive about their vagina's (trust me ladies, most men don't care ), I can understand what they mean as they're being different kinds.

You know, like for instance the "open" and the "closed" versions. With a mod's permission I could post what I mean, for educational purposes of course!

[Monarchist]

Another obsessive natural urge to become more like the peacock (no pun intended; indeed, the goal is quite often the opposite of a peacock ), and less like the human. This is the problem of the modern world. Young people are so obsessed with the pleasures of the body that the mind is given no quarter in the storm of booze, drugs, and some bodily substances. An assault upon the importance of the mind comes in the form of "larger John Thomas NOW!" and "TIGHTER canyons and valleys for you gals!" adverts.

At least back in the 1890's children were forced to learn the difficult Latin, and sometimes even Greek, which put a certain complexity in them. Now that Latin has been mostly abolished and the maths are being dumbed down in most schools (http://nomuzak.co.uk/evidence_1.html) across the West, people are reverting back to the pleasures of the body, specifically. The ineffable is ignored, and that which is transient is no longer just an image, but considered the goal. Atheist as you are, dear reader of this post, you cannot deny that the atrophy of the mind is in evidence. Whether it's tied to the growing tide of atheism doesn't really matter; it's the horrid results, and not the reasons. Anyway, we know that it's the destruction of sound education that results in the obsession with the body. Without the mind, where can human beings turn, in their passionate youth, but the pleasures of the body?

Has anyone seen eighth grade (13-14 year olds) examinations from one-room private-run school houses in 1895? Those things would stump the penis-length obsessives of today. They have to touch i-Pods, fondle cell phones, and make out on the front lawn while feeling how large their ho's vagina is has gotten from new hormone treatments. Of course, ten minutes later they're calling the ambulance because the "Miracle Growth" has sent the girl into her period prematurely... only they can't actually remember the number for ambulances because they've been using speed-dial all these years and it broke so they have to use a manual telephone but they don't remember how AND MY GOD THE ENTIRE WORLD IS DYING.

By the way, this may not be directly related to vaginas and such, but it relates to the question of "what is the world coming to?" as a whole:

Once upon a time in a deep valley, the cuckoo and the nightingale between them made a wager: which of them could sing the finer song. Whomsoever skill or fortune favoured, he should have the mastery. The cuckoo said, "If it please you, I have already chosen the judge", and he straightway named the donkey!

"For", said he, "he has two big ears; all the better to mark what is bad, and tell it apart from what is good." They flew away to the judge, and told him how the matter stood. He commanded them to sing, and the nightingale sang so sweetly.

The donkey spoke: "This is too intricate for me. Hee-haw, I cannot grasp it at all."

Then quickly the cuckoo began his song through thirds and fourths and fifths.

It pleased the ass. He just said, "Wait while I pronounce my verdict. Nightingale, you have sung well; but you, cuckoo, have sung a fine chorale and you keep the strictest measure. I speak from the height of a great intellect and though it should cost me a whole country I judge you to be the winner. Cuckoo, cuckoo, hee-haw."

When the pleasures of the mind are destroyed in favour of bigger vag and longer member, the world turns simple. We are the donkeys. Thanks a lot, 1960's!

[nce_wht_guy]

Stop whining for the flying spaghetti monster's sake.

[Monarchist]

Stop whining for the flying spaghetti monster's sake.

This has nothing to do with God... learning more complex sums and actually trying to speak an ancient language used by the world's greatest poets are secular adventures. Is everything that you disagree with just religious fundamentalism, or are you bored?

[nce_wht_guy]

This has nothing to do with God... learning more complex sums and actually trying to speak an ancient language used by the world's greatest poets are secular adventures. Is everything that you disagree with just religious fundamentalism, or are you bored?

I didn't say it did, you're just being rediculously naive.

[Monarchist]

I didn't say it did, you're just being rediculously naive.

May I ask why? What do you mean?

[nce_wht_guy]

May I ask why? What do you mean?

It's naive of you to think people have ever been any different.

[Bovril]

Well, ok, if you don't respect women and find suffering funny, then I guess that makes sense.

[Monarchist]

I don't believe people have ever been any different, but "back then" (pre-sex obsessed 1960's) society expected a little bit more in its standards. There were certain pressures to at least be discreet about your sexual drive and 'conquests'. I guarantee that you'd never have seen a "penis growth" advert in London in 1891.

[nce_wht_guy]

I don't believe people have ever been any different, but "back then" (pre-sex obsessed 1960's) society expected a little bit more in its standards. There were certain pressures to at least be discreet about your sexual drive and 'conquests'. I guarantee that you'd never have seen a "penis growth" advert in London in 1891.

I'd be suprised if you couldn't. Society has always been sex obssesed.

[Morkonan]

Interesting article. But, nothing really new.

There's a focus on appearance and sexual desirability that drives people to do these things. Part of it comes from marketing, fashion and movie industries, part of it comes from the person's feelings about their own appearance. Sometimes, they even develop a body-image of themselves that is simply false.

I think that if a woman feels strongly enough about it, then she should consider it. If it is truly effecting her quality of life than it is serious enough to qualify for medical intervention. But, I do think that anyone who is obsessed enough to wish surgery to alter their appearance for appearance's sake alone needs a bit of counseling as well. Otherwise, it's possible they are never going to be satisfied with their appearance. They need to be comfortable with who they are for legitimate reasons relating to their overall mental health.

I've known a few women who have had plastic surgery. Some simply to have what they thought was a physically desirable improvement, some purely for medical reasons. Of the ones I have known that did it for purely for a desire to improve their "sex appeal" I can't think of any reasons where it actually did that. Perhaps for some men, it did. Or, maybe it was just their own biased body-image of themselves that made them satisfied with the outcome. For myself, natural is.. natural. /shrug

[G-Megas-Doux]

Personally, I like the post by Winterlight regarding societies’ standards. When it comes to happiness the pursuit of pleasure is like a binge on a drug. The first time you experience the pleasure it is the best then you need to increase the amount to improve on the hit as the brain gets used to the feeling. This is because the chemicals of the mind are still affecting the receptors in the brain, so the initial receptors are not available for the hit.

There is a cliché that absence makes the heart grow fonder. To an extent this is true because of detoxification of the mind to the feeling. Repetition brings boredom so research to the next high consumes the mind.

Focus in thought is hard to maintain when people set goals to allow themselves to be financially comfortable enough to explore the pleasures available to them in society. Thus many a genius has fell following the first success which allows an aesthetic lifestyle.

If people did not want something the opportunity to get the said item would not be there or so limited it becomes pointless.

Perhaps society needs to find a sterner focus in relation to public attitudes towards things and to become more austere and selective without allowing loss of choice.

[God-Emperor of Mankind]

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/societ...1119-iotc.html
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I guess it's to be expected.
The "quest" to be like someone else(which changes every month) is a natural thing usually hits in puberty but you should grow out it.
But the odd thing is that more and more people seem to have trouble growing out of this period these days and this applies to men and women alike.
That the genitials are now being targeted is natural due to plastic surgery being advanced as it is.

But I do find odd that there is little info about these "enhancements".
Mean penis enlargement surgery for example doesn't actually work the way people think it does.
Breast enlargement can make a woman look better but that's very few women. Most of them don't look that good and they will look even worse when they get older and their breasts starts to drop.
And from the sound of things, these vaginal surgery doesn't sound like it will solve any problems except for those that actually have a problem.
So many people walk into these things thinking that it will solve their "problems" when it won't, chances are that it will make things even worse.

I guess I just hope that one day some people will just realise to be happy with who they are and how they look.
As long as you are born with 10 fingers and 11 toes then all is well really.