Executing Your Son for Molesting Your Daughter. . .

[uos_spo6]

Here's the link to the story. . . http://www.detnews.com/article/20091...ld-girl/?imw=Y


Just wondered how others would view this act. The jist of the story, a father in Highland Park MI (suburb of Detroit) marched his naked 14yr old out of their home and across the street to a field where he put a handgun to the back of his head and blew his brains out the front.

The reason being, apparently the 14yr old son had admitted some sort of sexual contact with a 3yr old female relative. What you won't see in this story because it was amended to protect the sex assault victims identity, is that the 3yr old girl was also the mans daughter (by a different mother).

Personally, I view this story with great remorse for the loss of the whole family but in some sick sadistic way I admire the father for the strength of his convictions. In a way, he sacrificed his own son for a set of morals he believes in.

Is the sanctity of a helpless little girl so precious and valuable that the gross offense of the son in any skewed instance warrants vigilante capital punishment?

Family witness accounts say the boy was pleading for his life to his father and he pulled the trigger regardless.

[Thanatos]

Murder is murder. What the son did was horrible, but that in no way justifies murder.

[uos_spo6]

Murder is murder. What the son did was horrible, but that in no way justifies murder.

I think it goes beyond simple murder though. Is it murder when an inmate is excuted within the legal system in retribution for his crimes? Depends on how you want to define it or where you agree authority to end a life rests.

This was his own son and his own daugther though. I feel, if anybody has a right to remove the boy from this world for his crimes, his father holds more right to that unpleasantry than a court of law would.

Well it's not like he's unmolested his 3 year old daughter by doing that.

True, I agree with that aspect of it all. Now his daughter will be out a father for her whole life as well. Perhaps, if her father was around while she is growing up, he would be able to ease the pain in her life from having suffered through the ordeal of molestation.

[Thanatos]

I think it goes beyond simple murder though. Is it murder when an inmate is excuted within the legal system in retribution for his crimes? Depends on how you want to define it or where you agree authority to end a life rests.

This was his own son and his own daugther though. I feel, if anybody has a right to remove the boy from this world for his crimes, his father holds more right to that unpleasantry than a court of law would.

No. It is not murder when the state executes, because it is for a different purpose that the criminal is put to death.

You would promote complete vigilantism. That leads to anarchy. The father has no right to kill his son whatsoever.

[uos_spo6]

No. It is not murder when the state executes, because it is for a different purpose that the criminal is put to death.

You would promote complete vigilantism. That leads to anarchy. The father has no right to kill his son whatsoever.

What is the different reason if it isn't punishment/retribution? To remove an individual from society who cannot function within the rules and guidelines? Then life imprisonment would be the answer and execution would never be justified if that is the purpose of execution.

The special instance of this circumstance is that it concerns one man and his two offspring. Maybe "Legally" the guy didn't have a right to do it, and his reaction may have been about as drastic as possible, but I'm trying to look at the deeper aspects of it.

I mean, I doubt this man took any sort of thrill or joy from killin his own son. And as helm said, I'm surprised he didn't turn it on himself afterwards. I think most anyone who has a daughter could say that if someone raped her, they would want to kill them.

Now inject the fact that the individual who raped your innocent 3yr old daughter was your own son.

I can't even fathom the strength of the emotion that would run through oneself. I can see the logic to this mans reaction. It was his son and his daughter. If it went to court, then the legal system would be handling it. This man handled it himself how he saw proper. Perhaps we don't agree, probably even in retrospect he wishes he hadn't.

But in some sick way, I can see the merit in his deed. Out of all the women I love and the different ways I have love for them, if anyone sexually assault any of them I would be relieved of any empathy for that said individual and any value their life may have held.

If my uncle raped my mother I would exexcute him. If a stranger raped my daughter, I would execute him. If my son raped my daughter, I would find myself torn. I would be disgusted with my son and not strong enough myself to do what I thought was right (whether or not you agree) which is to remove him from this world. But had it been any one but my son, I wouldn't hesitate. Isn't that in some ways selfishness creeping through? Because he would be my son he is exempt from the retribution I would want to exact upon anyone else?

. . . what I'm really interested in is the state of mind this guy was in and his rationale.

I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying I can understand it. And I'm somewhat in awe of the power of his convictions, depending upon what went through his mind that is. If he killed his son solely out of rage and anger for his deed, it is slightly less significant. But if he contemplated and calculated and decided that regardless of this young man being his son, his blood did not absolve him from the same vengence that anyone else would have receieved at the fathers hands for the crime.

[Mega Tortas de Bodemloze]

It's simply an impossible situation....In addition it's impossible to have incite to that family's life....

[Thanatos]

What is the different reason if it isn't punishment/retribution? To remove an individual from society who cannot function within the rules and guidelines? Then life imprisonment would be the answer and execution would never be justified if that is the purpose of execution.

The special instance of this circumstance is that it concerns one man and his two offspring. Maybe "Legally" the guy didn't have a right to do it, and his reaction may have been about as drastic as possible, but I'm trying to look at the deeper aspects of it.

I mean, I doubt this man took any sort of thrill or joy from killin his own son. And as helm said, I'm surprised he didn't turn it on himself afterwards. I think most anyone who has a daughter could say that if someone raped her, they would want to kill them.

Now inject the fact that the individual who raped your innocent 3yr old daughter was your own son.

I can't even fathom the strength of the emotion that would run through oneself. I can see the logic to this mans reaction. It was his son and his daughter. If it went to court, then the legal system would be handling it. This man handled it himself how he saw proper. Perhaps we don't agree, probably even in retrospect he wishes he hadn't.

But in some sick way, I can see the merit in his deed. Out of all the women I love and the different ways I have love for them, if anyone sexually assault any of them I would be relieved of any empathy for that said individual and any value their life may have held.

If my uncle raped my mother I would exexcute him. If a stranger raped my daughter, I would execute him. If my son raped my daughter, I would find myself torn. I would be disgusted with my son and not strong enough myself to do what I thought was right (whether or not you agree) which is to remove him from this world. But had it been any one but my son, I wouldn't hesitate. Isn't that in some ways selfishness creeping through? Because he would be my son he is exempt from the retribution I would want to exact upon anyone else?

. . . what I'm really interested in is the state of mind this guy was in and his rationale.

I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying I can understand it. And I'm somewhat in awe of the power of his convictions, depending upon what went through his mind that is. If he killed his son solely out of rage and anger for his deed, it is slightly less significant. But if he contemplated and calculated and decided that regardless of this young man being his son, his blood did not absolve him from the same vengence that anyone else would have receieved at the fathers hands for the crime.

A very excellent answer, I can definitely see where you are coming from. We agree to disagree, I personally believe that it has to be the courts, because it is only then that you wouldn't have such drastic knee-jerk reactions like this, but at least we can unite under the reasoning that it was a sad and deplorable act.

[CtrlAltDe1337]

Murder is murder. What the son did was horrible, but that in no way justifies murder.

I agree. He should turn his son into the police and let him be tried and executed legally.

In the event that their was no legal authority to go to, then I would have shot the boy too. But in the U.S. we have a legal code and you gotta go through proper channels.

[Helm]

Well it's not like he's unmolested his 3 year old daughter by doing that.

[Phier]

There is a kind of potential logic that makes sense here. Its primal but I can sympathize depending on the circumstances we don't know.

If this boy was an apparently danger to others, and has a history of such danger, it in an 'honor' sense, fall upon the father to to remove this danger from his family and the community at large.

Not acceptable by todays standards, but understandable.

[Helm]

Well it's easy to judge someone in that situation when you're not in their shoes. I'm surprised he didn't turn the gun on himself afterwards.

[Bovril]

Just for the sake of putting this in perspective, it's useful to generalise the priciple. For example, by changing round the actors in the story we can better make morally unpredjudiced decisions. Let's make the father the molester, the son the victim and the daughter (albeit an older version) the kiler. Do we have the same reaction? If not why not?

This formulation is what I consider not necessarily wrong, but dangerous given the reelations of the actors in a patriachical society:

I feel, if anybody has a right to remove the boy from this world for his crimes, his father holds more right to that unpleasantry than a court of law would.

[Helm]

If not why not?

Because it's kind of an entirely different kind of setup/scenario altogether?

[Bovril]

Because it's kind of an entirely different kind of setup/scenario altogether?

It is if your value system is based on the assumption of arbitrary authority of the parent (particularly the father) over the child. That's very much my point.

[Mega Tortas de Bodemloze]

Just for the sake of putting this in perspective, it's useful to generalise the priciple. For example, by changing round the actors in the story we can better make morally unpredjudiced decisions. Let's make the father the molester, the son the victim and the daughter (albeit an older version) the kiler. Do we have the same reaction? If not why not?

This formulation is what I consider not necessarily wrong, but dangerous given the reelations of the actors in a patriachical society:

Well...for me, the same result. I very well could have been overcome with rage as well....and committed murder.

[Aonghus G. Friedhold]

She'd be too young to really remember it, so just shut him away and throw away the key. Cut off contact with him.

[Seleucos of Olympia]

From that article:

Relatives said Jamar Jr. recently admitted that he'd had inappropriate physical contact with a 3-year-old several months ago.

Jamar's aunt, Yolanda Cherry, said a relative took the girl to a doctor to be examined on Sunday, and that there were no indications of sexual abuse.

We only know that under circumstances that we will never know for sure, the son said something (as an admission? as a lie to spite his father? as a forced confession?) that the father considered lethally inappropriate, and then shot him. Because of that action, we may never know the whole truth.

[uos_spo6]

Good discussion.

I'm looking at it from the mentioned "patriarchal" authority point. I grew up in a family setting where my father was the absolute authority and very much made the decisions and controlled situations, so it doesn't seem absurd to me that this man felt he had that kind of authority over his offspring.

In some extreme sense, I think considering the "honor" factor, this execution/killing can be morbidly justified. In a court of law no, but in some primal basic law of nature yes.

I think what drove this man to kill his own flesh and blood son was disgust for the act of violating an innocent little girl. If he would do it to his son, I think it's safe to say he would view the same actions justified in any other scenario of rape/molestation. This much I can agree with. Makes me wonder what his reaction would be if the little girl his son molested was not his own daughter, would he have still executed him?

Rape ought to be punishable by death in my eyes. It's disgusting and subhuman. The sanctity of a womans body is hers and hers alone to decide what to do with, especially that of a defenseless child.

As I said, what really intrigues me is his willingness to exact revenge upon his own son like that. And I realize that people do messed up things to their own children everyday, but that is out of anger, hatred and/or genuine disfunction. This man had a clear morally based agenda.

[Don in the North]

She'd be too young to really remember it, so just shut him away and throw away the key. Cut off contact with him.

i wouldnt count on that. i remember stuff from when i was 2 like meeting my fathers scary lookin friends for the first time on my 2nd bday where i got one of those peddle cars.
i imagine if i experienced such a traumatic event at the age of 3, i would definatly remember it.

i can empathize with the father too, i dont think this was a calculated murder, at least not in the classic sense. i reckon the guy felt rage, pure rage, ebbed with a warped sense of nessecity to remove such a predator from society; to undo that which he created in a frankenstein sort of way.
had the guy taken a few minutes to calm down, the boys death wouldve been avoided but in all honesty, to do something of that nature to a baby is well......... the markings of a serial rapist paedophile. juvie hall can only hold him for so long before he is free to roam the world, 4 years after his juvie imprisonment.

[C-Rob]

Douchebag son but people have done worse and their fathers didn't have the balls(or gall?) to blow their brains out.