[FAILED] [Artifex] sumskilz (Patron: Tzar) November 30th

**Tzar** · November 19, 2009, 07:44 AM

Client: sumskilz

I was both surprised and honored when Tzar approach me with an offer of patronage. It had not occurred to me that I may be citizen material but I suppose with as much time as I’ve spent on Total War Center someone was bound to notice me. My primary contribution here has been modding – specifically creating units for Dominion of the Sword and The Great Conflicts 872-1071. I’ve been a Total War Center member since March of 2008 and an active modder since March of 2009. In May, I joined the Dominion of the Sword team and was quickly promoted to become one of our nine mod leaders.

The work I’m most proud of can be seen here in this preview http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=6303209#post6303209 because I believe it represents the culmination of what I’ve learned through practice and interaction with the other modders here on the site.

Here are a few more that I am pleased with:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...49#post6066349
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...55#post5830955
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...54#post5779054
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...25#post5676225

As a mod leader I’m very active in the Dominion of the Sword sub-forum. When questions arise regarding a topic that I’m well read in, I try to educate without coming across as arrogant. I realize that many of us do learn a lot through our historical gaming hobby so I try to approach things the same way I do in an academic setting. Even in my preview posts, I like to add a few bits of historical context that I hope will be interesting to other members of the community.

I go into this application for citizenship without expectation either way, but as I’ve invested a lot of time in the community here, it would be perfectly fitting for me to take a more active role in the site at large.

Patron: Tzar

Honorable Members of the CdeC

I would like to propose that the member Sumskilz be granted citizenship and promoted to the rank of Artifex.
I first encountered him in The Great Conflicts 872-1071 forums where I notice his great work. Since then Sumskilz get involved with few modding projects. He is also helpful to new modders, passing along whatever information he can. I consider him a model member and someone I can confidently submit to you. Aside from this, he is a polite, modest and well-meaning person.
Beside the work he presented within his application I would like to add few more examples of his work from TGC mod where I have access.

Even some simple work like this shields and this basic tunic is nice and need skills to be done.

Upon reviewing his achievements and contributions to TWC, I hope that you will find that he is more than worthy to join our ranks.

Kindly Regards
Tzar

**Augustus Lucifer** · November 19, 2009, 09:25 AM

The hard thing with this user, is that of his contributions two things are true. The first is that none of these units are in a released form, so all we have to go on is the pictures we are shown. It's not impossible for people to get in without released units, but it makes the bar significantly higher when you can only see screenshots. This is also contingent on the mod being released, and with DotS they've been going for a couple years now with relatively little in the way of artwork being shown(even though they preview single units). The second is that his models almost always incorporate significant portions of models taken from the Rusichi mods [with permission]. It would be fair to say that the 'best' of his models, which have the most distinctive normal maps, are due to this incorporation since the same depth of quality is absent in some other units.

Right now I'm very disappointed that B. Ward is not with us on the council, because he had a real knack for comparing units to other units he had access to with the naked eye and determining how much had actually changed. It really takes a modeler's eye to know the borrowing procedure, since most modelers do it to some extent, either from Vanilla or other mods, and taking 'pieces' of models is easier than those of us not versed would be likely to believe. In some cases I can see the derivative, but in others it would take some serious time and mixing/matching to do the comparison. It should also be noted that pacco is cited as responsible for some of the textures, and others are clearly Rusichi.

This is not making any presumption about the time he may have spent working on these units, since time put in is not really fair to assess as it makes smaller tasks more herculean in direct proportion to personal acumen. What it is to say is that the specific work done by him in the final product [as changed from the 'stock' product] may not be enough to stack up against the standard needed to get Artifex without any released work. With only the examples he [or Tzar] has stated so far, I'm inclined to vote No on the application, since the breadth and depth of work isn't up to par with what I'd consider for unreleased work. I'm still willing to be convinced otherwise and will spend time looking for other units and non-modding contributions.

**Nikos** · November 19, 2009, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by Augustus Lucifer

The hard thing with this user, is that of his contributions two things are true. The first is that none of these units are in a released form, so all we have to go on is the pictures we are shown. It's not impossible for people to get in without released units, but it makes the bar significantly higher when you can only see screenshots. This is also contingent on the mod being released, and with DotS they've been going for a couple years now with relatively little in the way of artwork being shown(even though they preview single units). The second is that his models almost always incorporate significant portions of models taken from the Rusichi mods [with permission]. It would be fair to say that the 'best' of his models, which have the most distinctive normal maps, are due to this incorporation since the same depth of quality is absent in some other units.

Right now I'm very disappointed that B. Ward is not with us on the council, because he had a real knack for comparing units to other units he had access to with the naked eye and determining how much had actually changed. It really takes a modeler's eye to know the borrowing procedure, since most modelers do it to some extent, either from Vanilla or other mods, and taking 'pieces' of models is easier than those of us not versed would be likely to believe. In some cases I can see the derivative, but in others it would take some serious time and mixing/matching to do the comparison. It should also be noted that pacco is cited as responsible for some of the textures, and others are clearly Rusichi.

This is not making any presumption about the time he may have spent working on these units, since time put in is not really fair to assess as it makes smaller tasks more herculean in direct proportion to personal acumen. What it is to say is that the specific work done by him in the final product [as changed from the 'stock' product] may not be enough to stack up against the standard needed to get Artifex without any released work. With only the examples he [or Tzar] has stated so far, I'm inclined to vote No on the application, since the breadth and depth of work isn't up to par with what I'd consider for unreleased work. I'm still willing to be convinced otherwise and will spend time looking for other units and non-modding contributions.

Agreed with AL on this one. I also don't know the extent of his borrowing and taking from the Rusichi team and other modders. And with the DOTS mod not yet released, it's going to be hard for me to vote yes with just seeing the pictures. More looking is of course required, but I'm also inclined to vote "no' on this applicant.

**Empress Meg** · November 19, 2009, 11:08 AM

I'm on the fence. Being a mod leader is amazingly stressful.

**Tzar** · November 19, 2009, 08:55 PM

I would like to mention few things you might consider in your decisions.
Sumskilz is modelar, which is one of the hardest and most needed jobs in modding and he’s also working as a skinner. Learn how to make 3D models and skins are not easy things to do. Even though those mods are not released, his work attracting people in those forums (preview etc…)
You should also consider nearly 2 years of membership without any moderators infractions.

If more material is needed I can contact my Client.

**y2day** · November 19, 2009, 09:16 PM

I agree that creating models is the most difficult job in modding and the people that take the time to learn and are good at it, can go a long way here at TWC. I don't see why this gentlemen would be any different. I wish B. was here as he is one of the best and could really shine light on this members work. I have done little work in milkshape and couldn't be counted on much but to say he has contributed many hours to his work. Seeing how nothing has been released its tough but I think the quality of work is great and am leaning toward a yes.

**Tzar** · November 21, 2009, 03:53 PM

I asked my Client to provide more of his work.

My models and textures (I used a few Rusichi parts on some though):
http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/4485/euroheads.jpg
http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/9...asalsudani.jpg
http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/4...uardturban.jpg
http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/8454/arabfaces.jpg
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/173...adsprofile.jpg
http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/3710/chodove.jpg
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/1596/chodgamb.jpg
http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/2...ardattachm.jpg
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/5169/reedspears.jpg
http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/1936/newnormal.jpg
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/3...ithprofile.jpg

I textured these guys and made the models (mostly from Rusichi parts but with some original hats). I used some of Pacco's textures and Faces are Rusichi.
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/160...ianarchers.jpg

The other thing that I know is inherently difficult to assess is my leadership and research contributions. If CdeC would like to do some research on me, they can ask Hross or any of our other mod leaders (Resurrection or Copperknickers would be particualarly good as well). As examples, here are a few of my posts copied and pasted from our work forum:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

**Tankbuster** · November 22, 2009, 09:03 AM

He looks incredibly talented and his work looks very promising. That combined with his work as a mod leader (and doing a rather good job at that, as far as I can see) is enough to become Artifex by anyone's standard.

The only issue I have is that his work is not yet released, only previewed. His work is outstanding, but since we've only just rejected a couple of Artifex proposals on the grounds that their work hadn't yet been released, how fair is it to use different standards now?
Technically, his work as a mod leader can of course be judged no matter what (planning work and keeping others working towards a common goal is a great contribution whether the mod is released or not)...

**Nikos** · November 23, 2009, 09:40 AM

I'm going to have to abstain on this one. I just don't feel I can make an informed decision on this case.

**y2day** · November 24, 2009, 11:40 AM

I voted yes but I'm still not 100% sure, I could ask Rome to change it. I think his work is enough for the title. My only concern really was that nothing has been released. I'm not sure he will pass this vote and I would suggest telling him to try again once his work is released.

y

**the Black Prince** · November 24, 2009, 03:42 PM

Can i make a suggestion?

On the modelling alone, I am not convinced. I endorse ALs points entirely. But the trouble is, there is more to this application than modelling and some of that it is very hard to judge.

Can the Curator approach the mod leader (Copperknickers perhaps) and ask for an assessment of this members contributions, particularly with regard to leadership and project management, with permission given by the applicant already.

I don't think without this information I could fairly judge this members application, and on the strength of current information would vote no, but I could be convinced. It might be necessary to extend the time on this one to allow someone to respond, is that possible? Curator could veto his own poll I guess...?

**Tzar** · November 24, 2009, 08:03 PM

I agree.

**Captain Blackadder** · November 25, 2009, 05:36 AM

I agree TBP I cannot vote yes right now but with a little more information I might be able to I also ask for a continium on the voting for this one.

**Viking Prince** · November 25, 2009, 10:34 AM

I am always a bit reluctant to add a great deal of weight to local moderation as a contribution. If the member is on the margin, it can certainly tip the balance. I also agree with AL about the modding side of things. I really do hope the member becomes a citizen, but I am not convinced that the moment has arrived. He is still learning and his work is still a work in progress.

I am not going to abstain since I hold not conflicts or other relationships with the applicant. I want to be convinced, but I am not yet convinced. For this reason, I will be voting no on this application.

**Каие** · November 25, 2009, 04:13 PM

I'll do as you guys want.

I've been sent on behalf of the CdeC for your clarification, as a mod leader on certain mod, on a certain matter.

The member sumskilz has applied for citizenship... and the CdeC are unsure about something. They wanted to ask for an assessment of this members contributions, particularly with regard to leadership and project management, with permission having been given by the applicant already.

Are you capable of making a comment at this time? It's very important to his application.

**Каие** · November 25, 2009, 05:07 PM

Copperknicker's reply was;

Hross is the founding member, we like to call him our 'Director' as he 'calls the shots' as it were. I am one of the Mod Leaders, Head of Research to be exact. Sumskilz is also a Mod Leader, Head of Unit Development.

Sorry if i have wasted your time, but if its worth anything, Sum has indeed breathed new life into the Units department, his amazing work is referenced in our previews.

He does most of the research for the units he creates, skins them, models them, with some help from the other unit creators. He is a brilliant worker, he also collaborates with the research department well and helps with lots of things including music and map research.

i hope this is useful, as i believe Sum is more than worthy of elevation based on his work with DotS.

Should I contact Hross as well? Or is that sufficient?

PS. All of you are free to contact whoever you want... it doesn't have to be through me.

**Viking Prince** · November 25, 2009, 05:33 PM

Actually it is probably best for only one member to contact on these issues. It need not be the Curator, but I would like to think one member is better than 12 sending private messages.

As for Copperknicker's reply, this is an important addition to the mix. I do not think it changes my mind from my 'no' vote, but certainly confirms that the member is doing all of the right stuff towards rising in rank to citizen. I would still like to see more than previews on the mod though.

**Nikos** · November 25, 2009, 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by Viking Prince

Actually it is probably best for only one member to contact on these issues. It need not be the Curator, but I would like to think one member is better than 12 sending private messages.

As for Copperknicker's reply, this is an important addition to the mix. I do not think it changes my mind from my 'no' vote, but certainly confirms that the member is doing all of the right stuff towards rising in rank to citizen. I would still like to see more than previews on the mod though.

I agree, once more work is revealed the candidate will easily make Artifex, just not yet.

**Tankbuster** · November 26, 2009, 09:13 AM

Voting no for the same reasons. We've been quite consequent in most citizen applications that we will only count contributions that have been released (and thus able to be reviewed) as real contributions. As talented as he is and as good his modding skills are, I think we should remain consequent and keep following this rule of thumb.