EDU-matic: Automatic unit balance/EDU generation system

[Aradan]

You can do it if you edit the tool of course, but the current version doesn't support it (so you can't just change some value somewhere). I'll include it in 1.5 too.

[Kylan271]

I just started work on trying out units for RTW. I am somewhat perplexed by how to assign armour for units with say Linothorax and its pertyges? Some units have arm and or shoulder pertyges,and there are units with scale on linothorax(I think bronze scale?). I can't see VEST being assigned any armour coverage also,hmmm? Can someone show some example of what armour data I need to assign for Linothorax type armour? I have seen pertegys of linothorax,leather and chain types,but can't see how to mix them with a curias or breastplate?

Also,Mantle and pouldron equate to what in RTW era terms?

Sorry for having a foggy mind,any help appreciated.^_*

[Thangaror]

I have similar problems. What are "arm-guards" and how do they differ from pauldrons? How long is a "long-shirt"? Can a unit with a long-shirt wear a skirt?
You can get a clue what it means having a look into the definition sheet but it's somewhat confusing.

Also, if I try to recreate a known unit for which the EDUmatic has been used assumingly, I end up with totally different values and absurdly high defence.

Anyway besides this, I get an error again and again: "Unit's multiple variations per model (XXX) incompatible with mod platform."
No matter what I change, I'll get that message. Weird thing is, it worked half an hour ago.

@ Kylan: Well, in case of a linothorax with attached bronze scales I'd assign a linothorax to the unit and then edit the armour value in the data sheet manually.

[Aradan]

I just started work on trying out units for RTW. I am somewhat perplexed by how to assign armour for units with say Linothorax and its pertyges? Some units have arm and or shoulder pertyges,and there are units with scale on linothorax(I think bronze scale?). I can't see VEST being assigned any armour coverage also,hmmm? Can someone show some example of what armour data I need to assign for Linothorax type armour? I have seen pertegys of linothorax,leather and chain types,but can't see how to mix them with a curias or breastplate?

Also,Mantle and pouldron equate to what in RTW era terms?

Sorry for having a foggy mind,any help appreciated.^_*

Sorry for the late reply, I've been quite busy lately.

The tool doesn't support very complex armour combos (eg a linothorax with scale reinforcement and bronze pteryges), because then it becomes extremely complex to calculate armour defs and also provide a relatively streamlined interface for the user without a gazillion bodypart slots.

I need to stress this: the tool includes some armour types and bodypart coverage values that are meant as placeholders. The user is meant to edit those, delete the ones he doesn't like and add the ones he needs. That's the main reason I did this on excel, so that editing the 'data' is simple. So, if you feel an armour type's armour defs are wrong, edit them. If an armour type is missing, add it yourself, there's no need to try and make do with only what the tool already provides.

I have similar problems. What are "arm-guards" and how do they differ from pauldrons? How long is a "long-shirt"? Can a unit with a long-shirt wear a skirt?
You can get a clue what it means having a look into the definition sheet but it's somewhat confusing.

Arm-guards might be just around the arm and not cover the shoulder at all, pauldrons mainly cover the shoulder and depending on their type some part of the upper arm.

Long-shirt is a shirt that goes below the waist (knee-length or there-abouts).
The names of the armour types are placeholders, same as their values. You can edit the names to make them as descriptive as you like (instead of "Long shirt", you can name it "hauberk" or "that cool armour type" or whatever. Just make sure that there are no references to the previous names left in Unit Defs.

Also, if I try to recreate a known unit for which the EDUmatic has been used assumingly, I end up with totally different values and absurdly high defence.

The only units that have been created with EDUmatic are the VI2 and BI ones, and in order to get the exact same values you'd have to use the exact same data. That includes not only armour and weapon definitions, but also Coredata, like attack/defence/charge/cost/upkeep multiplers, cultural multipliers and so on.

Anyway besides this, I get an error again and again: "Unit's multiple variations per model (XXX) incompatible with mod platform."
No matter what I change, I'll get that message. Weird thing is, it worked half an hour ago.

Is there a blank line in ArmourDefs below the one you get that message for? If so, delete the entire line (not the contents, the line itself).

[Kylan271]

OK Aradan the details I thought where changeable,but did not know how to assign the armour types as listed. I found your armour data is about 2x RTW value,and seems to work. I am using the armour coverage listings as my armour guideline. Some units like the gladiator has only 1 greave,so I use the difference between the armour with no greave and one with them and half the value difference,ie 18 no greaves & 20 with greaves gives 19 armour(1 greave). I try to adapt the data also.

To seperate the pre and post marius romans,I use bronze chain for pre marius and iron chain for post marius. Just my tweaks. Only thing I really need to know how are the variables added when some are 'non active' ie command_value,but others like melee_fraction aren't?

And again your work is excellent.

Thanks!

Anyway besides this, I get an error again and again: "Unit's multiple variations per model (XXX) incompatible with mod platform."
No matter what I change, I'll get that message. Weird thing is, it worked half an hour ago.

This is for the EDU Advanced,ie for MTW2,you use the Basic version for RTW. I did the same...oopsie.

[fightermedic]

hi ho there Aradan, any chance to see this glorious version 1.5 released any time soon?

[Aradan]

Well, I said "it'd be released soon" some months ago and it still hasn't been, so I dread saying the same thing and failing to deliver again. My free time has decreased significantly since summer, and all my available-for-modding time goes into FATW, so the tool has been neglected, I'm sorry to say. One of these days I will bite the bullet and finish the damn thing though - if not for any other reason, because it's been promised to EB2 and I suspect I've let them down immensely, along with those who 'follow' my progress here, like you.

[fightermedic]

yes, please do, if you ever manage to gather the motivation and time with dots and eb2 the most promising mods ever are depending on you
not that the tool would not be very usefull as it is now, but that armour tab upgrade in 1.5 sounds way better than it is now

[Prince of Judah]

Create Data isn't actually creating the data. I am using openoffice, with Macros enabled. Clicking Create Data does nothing.


Somehow, its working now. But the &+&$*&*$^* secondary weapon is incompatible with EVERYTHING.

[Aradan]

Create Data works only after checking Unit Definitions.

What do you mean incompatible? Does an error message come up? if so, what kind?

[Prince of Judah]

it says not comptible with mod platform. I may have gotten it fixed, though I don't know how. excel SEEMS to have everything working. but when I copy the data into my edu it causes the mod to ctd.

It also shows no option to attach the unit to a faction. putting Y0 under "saxon" make it work, but I don't see anywayto change it to "frank" which is the faction used for Judah.

[Aradan]

If you go to CoreData, you can ste the mod's platform. The platform setting affects which weapon types are available: RTW allows simple, bladed, missile, siege and other, M2TW allows melee_simple, melee_bladed, missile_mechanical, missile_gunpowder etc.
If you have set M2/Kgdm as platform and the weapons have for example "simple" weapon type, you'll get an error.

As for the factions, you can define which faction name slot corresponds to each slot in CoreData, cells L13 to L43.

[Prince of Judah]

Okay but seem to be unable to use missile weapons. My unit, throws javleins. But edumatic does not recognize that I have selected javelins as the projectile.

[Aradan]

Have you set "Hands (thrown projectile) as the primary weapon (and javelins as its projectiles)?

I've used the tool to generate the EDU for a couple of mods which had quite a few units with javelins, and I never had any problems.

[Aradan]

I believe OpenOffice isn't compatible with the VBA used in the tool.

[Kylan271]

No it does not work,as tried before,had to get Excel.

[LegionaryCohort]

Damn...

Oh well, it would seem that I have to get Excel to use this amazing tool then

LegionaryCohort

[LegionaryCohort]

Hmm, I found the Excel version I knew I had lying around here
Installed it and checking unit defs worked fine now, but when I click create data I get a compile error:
"Sub or Function not defined" and it points to the Round(int,int,int) function. What could be the issue here? I'm assuming some import is missing, or I'm missing some file or other that contains the Round function...

LegionaryCohort

EDIT: What programming language is this ayway?

[LegionaryCohort]

Any ideas? I would really love to use this tool, it makes the game a lot more realistic when you use it for balancing purposes...

LegionaryCohort

[Aradan]

Round is a standard function, so it really should be there... Maybe try an online search to see why Excel doesn't recognise it?