Vegetarian vs non vegetarian

[Groundtotem]

So a couple of days ago i went on a bus. In the bus there was two people discussing how wrong it is to eat animals.

When they where the discussing i heard the following arguments why it's wrong to eat meat:

1. Animals have a soul and have the capacity too understand the world around them.
2. Breeding up animals just to eat them is animal abuse.
3. We have enough "green food" so eating animals isn't really a must anymore.
4. Animals do often get butcherd the wrong way so they feel pain before they die.
5. The human body does not need meat in order to survive, we can make it with just green food.

Me myself is not a vegetarian, in fact almost all my meals consists of meat in some form or another.

So now my question is what do you guys and girls think? Is it wrong to eat animals when we have other food sources?

Tell me your view's on the subject!

[Arch-hereticK]

On the other hand meat tastes super good. Some meat is better than sex.....................well it's better than wanking.

[KingDave]

On the other hand meat tastes super good. Some meat is better than sex.....................well it's better than wanking.

You know the guy posting is a virgin when........................................................................

[Arch-hereticK]

You know the guy posting is a virgin when........................................................................

Try Wagyu meat, then tell me.

[Lovejoy]

I am not a vegetarian, far from it, but I still find meat-eating some what immoral. We don't need to eat animals. It's not good for the environment and much of the meat we eat comes from ill treated animals. I will try to eat as little meat as possible, but I wont go vegetarian.

[Bovril]

I'm not a vegetarian but I do try to eat less meat than most of my peers for reasons of climate change, just as I turn off lights and only fill the kettle as full as I need it. My gut feeling about eating animals is entirely specious, and rests on the naturalistic fallacy. None the less, so does the rationalisation of the vegetarian excuse for letting carnivores go about their business. It is one of the horrible facts about our world (as we experience it) that meaningless death,and the dependence on the exploitation of other organisms for our own gain is not optional but necessary. After all, how many vegetarians only eat food that is not produced by industrial farms where combine harvesters kill rodents in fields and hedge rows and copses are destroyed causing the starvation of animals that previously lived there?

[Groundtotem]

One problem tough about we dont need the meat is that if all the humans would turn vegetarian, would all "green food" be enough to feed the entire world? We dont have enough food to feed a lot of people as it is now...

Also if everyone would stop eating meat wouldnt that mean that the animal population would grow out of contoll?

[Bovril]

One problem tough about we dont need the meat is that if all the humans would turn vegetarian, would all "green food" be enough to feed the entire world? We dont have enough food to feed a lot of people as it is now...

Also if everyone would stop eating meat wouldnt that mean that the animal population would grow out of contoll?

Meat requires a lot more land to produce than cereals or vegetables. This is (to put it crudely) because animals need to be fed on plant stuffs, and this is a wasteful process in terms of calories of food produced per unit of land.

If everyone stopped eating meat it would only have a direct effect on domestic animals. These would die out. Domestic animals in industrial farms only mate when their owners want them to after all. The lack of support for these animals and the alternative use of land would mean that chickens, cows, sheep, pigs and so on would all but die out. It may be that the change in the landscape as a result of an end to farming animals would result in an increase in wildlife, but 'natural' ecosystems are pretty good at self regulating.

[Helm]

Animals will be farmed anyway for milk, cheese, eggs, wool, leather, animal feed so no getting away from that unless you're an ultra vegan type. You also have to bear in mind that animals living out in the wild will die and get eaten by something anyway before ever reaching a ripe old age. So all in all farm animals have it fairly good, as long as they're treated well of course so buy free range/organic meat and avoid the cheap imported stuff.

[Groundtotem]

Animals will be farmed anyway for milk, cheese, eggs, wool, leather, animal feed so no getting away from that unless you're an ultra vegan type. You also have to bear in mind that animals living out in the wild will die and get eaten by something anyway before ever reaching a ripe old age. So all in all farm animals have it fairly good.

I agree, i mean we humans have been using animals for thier reasources for a very long time, our society is built upon it. We need the animals and the animlas need us..

[Lovejoy]

Animals will be farmed anyway for milk, cheese, eggs, wool, leather, animal feed so no getting away from that unless you're an ultra vegan type.

As far as I know, milking cows isn't used for meat anyway. But I agree, some animal farming is necessary, as long as we do it right.

You also have to bear in mind that animals living out in the wild will die and get eaten by something anyway before ever reaching a ripe old age. So all in all farm animals have it fairly good, as long as they're treated well of course so buy free range/organic meat and avoid the cheap imported stuff.

Not much of the meat we eat comes from the wild. Fish being the exception. And over-fishing is a huuge environmental problem.

[Thanatos]

I eat meat because:

1) It tastes great.
2) It provides me with nutrients it would be a bigger pain to get otherwise.
3) I don't believe animals have a soul.
4) Nature isn't kind, but we must be super-special-awesome to animals suddenly, simply because we possess autonomy? What kind of argument is that?

[Groundtotem]

I eat meat because:

1) It tastes great. I agree!
2) It provides me with nutrients it would be a bigger pain to get otherwise. Yep!
3) I don't believe animals have a soul. I don't believe anything have a soul
4) Nature isn't kind, but we must be super-special-awesome to animals suddenly, simply because we possess autonomy? What kind of argument is that? Well they meant that animals got treaten bad, and i agree with them that no animals should be treaten bad, it's just a respect for all living things kinda thing.

[hellheaven1987]

4) Nature isn't kind, but we must be super-special-awesome to animals suddenly, simply because we possess autonomy? What kind of argument is that?

Ya!! By eating meat I am doing what nature asking me to do!! It is a duty of mankind!!!

[Helm]

Farmed animals get eaten by us and wild animals will be eaten by other wild animals (or possibly by us as well) so it's much of a muchness. Cycle of life and all that.

[Morkonan]

....So now my question is what do you guys and girls think? Is it wrong to eat animals when we have other food sources?

Tell me your view's on the subject!

I don't think it is wrong, just yet...

First of all, let's examine WHY we eat meat. And, I don't mean just because it tastes good. Vegans will disagree with me on some points but, oh well...

There are meat-eaters and omnivores out there that prey on other animals for a reason. Our bodies are one big lump of energy-storage devices. We eat and then concentrate the energy we gain from that in our bodies. What we don't use immediately either gets stored or gets used in "construction." Either way, physical bodies take in nourishment and concentrate it.

Predators hunt other animals because those animals have, usually, done all the hard work of seeking out food sources, consuming them and digesting them. For instance, herbivores - It takes a GREAT deal of energy and effort along with specialized organs to digest plant material. But, if you're a predator, all you have to do is run up and eat the herbivore. That is the energy expenditure required for you to gain all the resources that herbivore has processed and stored. Predation is a very efficient means of gaining sustenance. Then, you can sit back and expend a bit of energy digesting the herbivore and thanking it for its contribution to your well-being.

It is extremely difficult to find plant sources that yield the same nutritional value as meat. Because we cook meat, unlike other meat-eaters, we even save a lot of digestive energy. (Raw meat takes a lot of energy to digest as well.) This makes meat even more efficient at being a source of energy and building material.

While I love all common plant foods, it would take specific combinations along with some supplements, if I couldn't obtain some foods easily, in order to provide the nourishment I would need for a healthy body without eating meats. Until we are able to replace animal products with artificial ones that yield the same economy and benefits, then I can not say that eating animals is wrong. We simply do not have as efficient a choice in the matter.

Btw, I do not consider natural animal products, like milk derived products, as being "wrong" in any way. As long as the animals are not abused I see no problem with it. Happy cows exist, they make commercials...



On a separate note: Do we have enough room to feed everyone on plants alone? Yes, we do. But, in order to provide all the necessary components in enough supply to balance out our diet, we'd need better farming technology in some areas. I don't know that we could afford to do it, economically, right now. Eventually, we'll have to. Population levels, should they not "auto-adjust" due to some catastrophe, will demand that we continue to improve farming techniques. Consequently, they will also increase the demand on animal stocks as well.

[DimondLight]

[QUOTE]

1. Animals have a soul and have the capacity too understand the world around them.

Depends if you believe in the concept of a "soul", and just because they have the capacity to understand doesn't mean they can't be eaten.

2. Breeding up animals just to eat them is animal abuse.

It's been done for thousands upon thousands of years.

3. We have enough "green food" so eating animals isn't really a must anymore.

"Green food" is so much more boring, and meat makes life more enjoyable for me.

4. Animals do often get butcherd the wrong way so they feel pain before they die.

Certainly it happens yes. I'm not terribly concerned about it, although I'd rather they weren't, but I'll eat meat either way.

5. The human body does not need meat in order to survive, we can make it with just green food.

Going back to what I said before, I'm here to live, not survive, and meat makes my life quite a bit more enjoyable.

[Maca]

My view is that the human body was designed to eat both plants and animals, so I see nothing wrong with it, we are just conforming to our natural design. Meat provides the body with vital substances that you just don't get (or at least in the right amounts) in plants. We are omnivores by design and so a little bit of everything is benificial to our health. Plus I LOVE minute steaks! And sausages! And bacon! Any meat really.

About conditions for animals raised for their meat, I like the idea of free range, of course I do, but is it really better? I mean, the animals are to be slaughtered and eaten anyway. In addition, it is more expensive for everyone than intensive rearing. So I guess that it is up to individuals if they feel strongly enough to pay extra for free range. Just to say, I don't.

[Lovejoy]

My view is that the human body was designed to eat both plants and animals, so I see nothing wrong with it, we are just conforming to our natural design. Meat provides the body with vital substances that you just don't get (or at least in the right amounts) in plants.

Nah. Its more than possible to eat a well balanced vegan diet. Many vegans dont know how though, so they end up kind off unhealthy. Even though humans are design to eat meat, red meat(?) is though on the body and can lead to cancer and more. Modern people generally eat much more meat than our ancestors did - some eat it to every meal, which was unheard off not many years ago :S

[Maca]

Nah. Its more than possible to eat a well balanced vegan diet. Many vegans dont know how though, so they end up kind off unhealthy. Even though humans are design to eat meat, red meat(?) is though on the body and can lead to cancer and more. Modern people generally eat much more meat than our ancestors did - some eat it to every meal, which was unheard off not many years ago :S

Do vegans not need supliments? Or am I just spouting rubbish?

Sure, red meat can lead to cancer, or at least will increase the chances of it, but so does going out in the sun.

Generally, people do eat more meat than before. I am one of those that have it with every meal, practically.