The Morality of Mourning

[Monarchist]

This is really not a very complex or poignant question, but I feel like getting opinions anyway. Why on Earth would anyone, religious or non-religious, mourn for the dead?

Theists,

If the religious mourn the dead, it seems that they are sad that their relative/friend has gotten what he deserves. When a religious man mourns a sinner, he is mourning someone who has gotten the punishment which is accorded to him, which is a direct questioning of God. When a religious man mourns one who he believes has been saved, he is mourning over the fact that someone has gotten into the most perfect and beautiful kingdom in existence, which is also against God. Whether you mourn a sinner or a saved one, each person gets what he deserves and you cannot possibly be sad by that. Indeed, religious people should be overjoyed when the dead are lowered into the ground, for their soul has gotten the punishment or reward it deserves. To mourn the dead for the your own emotional sake (to "say goodbye", in effect) is to focus only on Earth, and not the Afterlife that is your goal. Why should you mourn the punishment of sinners, and why should you mourn the salvation of the saved?

Atheists,

If the irreligious mourn the dead, it seems that they are sad over nothing. All the dead man's memories will be subsumed into the Earth within a few generations. If you are mourning someone famous, you are sad over spilled milk, for he shall be remembered for his deeds anyway. Why should you mourn a famous person, who shall be remembered for his works for eternity, even if his entire being has become as dust? To mourn an "Ordinary Joe" is to mourn the eternal peace of unstirred silence, which seems pretty silly, at least to me. If Joe died in pain, it has ended; if he died in peace, that shall be his last moment in eternity. What, then? Why bemoan the loss of the dead, when all you yourself will do is fall into dust and never arise?

The only answer I can find for the religious is that they should find joy that the sinful are being punished, and the saved are being rewarded. The only answer I can find for the irreligious is that they should chuck the empty corpse into a ravine and forget about it. What is the justification for mourning, even if it's an emotional one? I see almost no point, philosophically or morally, especially if you're an atheist.

----

I personally believe in God, but my position is that death is a joyous thing. Either (1) the evil are punished and (2) the good are saved, or (3) nothing happens. In the case of the first, I believe that God has leniency and term limits on suffering, if you will. In the case of the second, paradise is an obvious goal. In the case of the third, I can hardly have any negative or positive emotions, so they might as well be positive.

[Prodigal]

Theists,

If the religious mourn the dead, it seems that they are sad that their relative/friend has gotten what he deserves. When a religious man mourns a sinner, he is mourning someone who has gotten the punishment which is accorded to him, which is a direct questioning of God. When a religious man mourns one who he believes has been saved, he is mourning over the fact that someone has gotten into the most perfect and beautiful kingdom in existence, which is also against God. Whether you mourn a sinner or a saved one, each person gets what he deserves and you cannot possibly be sad by that. Indeed, religious people should be overjoyed when the dead are lowered into the ground, for their soul has gotten the punishment or reward it deserves. To mourn the dead for the your own emotional sake (to "say goodbye", in effect) is to focus only on Earth, and not the Afterlife that is your goal. Why should you mourn the punishment of sinners, and why should you mourn the salvation of the saved?

I will admit that I mourn that a person has passed. It is a dreadfully selfish thing to do, but I am human, and hence I am sad when someone I love dearly leaves this world. It is always comforting that I will get to see them in the next life. I have a great aunt who actually celebrates when a person passes. Not as in "throws a party" but is happy that they may go to the Kingdom of God. I wish I could be like her...

The poll is a bit messed up, because I believe that mourning is selfish and isn't a good thing to do, but I still do mourn...

[IronBrig4]

You made me think of this. You're not supposed to be miserable when somebody dies. Rather, you should celebrate their life.

[Monarchist]

You made me think of this. You're not supposed to be miserable when somebody dies. Rather, you should celebrate their life.

That's what it's all about, in my opinion, friend! Whether there is a God or not, it's always fun to celebrate a good person's life. He probably would have preferred that to solemnly standing about and listening to incantations. Of course, if someone was formal, religious, tight-lipped, and quiet like myself, I'd prefer that my friends remember me in a service that was formal, stoic, etc. Since Mr. Chapman was truly ridiculous in the best sense of the word, he deserved a ridiculous farewell. What more can I say, other than that I will try to paint a painting if an artist friend of mine dies, or I will conduct a symphony when a musician friend of mine does.

To stand about at a dour funeral like it matters sounds dreadfully silly, no matter the case of afterlife, God(s), et. al.

It is only human for some to want to hang onto certain things forever (emotional) regaurdless of reason or logic.

So does this make me inhuman, I suppose? I certainly don't want to hang on to my grandmother's corpse once she's gone, let alone her atrocious bad manners. Once the soul has left the body, after all, there is nothing of value left in the vessel. Why honour such an empty thing, religious or not?

[Angrychris]

It is only human for some to want to hang onto certain things forever (emotional) regaurdless of reason or logic.

[Arch-hereticK]

This is an interesting topic. I have quite a bit of experience on it.

During the summer my auntie died; it was my first humanist funeral and it was especially beautiful.
But why do we mourn the dead? Well I first mourned her actually dying, the pain and stuff, then I mourned my loss, the loss of an emotional crutch, the wisdom of a person with more experience than I; gone.

I think the reason for mourning is a selfish one, for theist and atheist alike. There's no difference, we're sad for ourselves.

[cfmonkey45]

Mourning is essential to the loss of a loved one. It lets one come to terms with their loss. Excessive mourning is detrimental, however. Nevertheless, it was presupposed to occur in the Old Testament. In the New Testament, there was a greater emphasis on the afterlife, thusly lesser emphasis is placed on it.

[Monarchist]

Mourning is essential to the loss of a loved one. It lets one come to terms with their loss. Excessive mourning is detrimental, however. Nevertheless, it was presupposed to occur in the Old Testament. In the New Testament, there was a greater emphasis on the afterlife, thusly lesser emphasis is placed on it.

I don't particularly feel that way, to be perfectly honest. When a loved one shoves off to wherever they are going beyond this side of the border, I say "well that's that", and get on. There seems to be no reason to mourn, even from an illogical and emotional standpoint. No moral prescriptions tell us that the dead truly require reverence, do they? An empty shell is merely something that the living can pour their various foibles and personal problems into. Mourning is a process that I find almost tedious in its selfishness.

Then again,

But why do we mourn the dead? Well I first mourned her actually dying, the pain and stuff, then I mourned my loss, the loss of an emotional crutch, the wisdom of a person with more experience than I; gone.

I think the reason for mourning is a selfish one, for theist and atheist alike. There's no difference, we're sad for ourselves.

It would be selfish of me to admit that I am unselfish, but I can't understand this. The wisdom of the dead person sticks with those who are alive, and thus the eternal spring of wisdom keeps flowing. Why should there be an emotional side to death at all? Perhaps this is too radical a view, but I see death as a step up, not down. This is a very theistic view, though, and you are welcome to others. Joy is the greatest thing in the Universe, and death makes me very joyful for its peace, or its ascension.

What is there even to be sad for? It must all be nostalgia, for the dead certainly cannot affect us so.

[Arch-hereticK]

It would be selfish of me to admit that I am unselfish, but I can't understand this. The wisdom of the dead person sticks with those who are alive, and thus the eternal spring of wisdom keeps flowing. Why should there be an emotional side to death at all? Perhaps this is too radical a view, but I see death as a step up, not down. This is a very theistic view, though, and you are welcome to others. Joy is the greatest thing in the Universe, and death makes me very joyful for its peace, or its ascension.

What is there even to be sad for? It must all be nostalgia, for the dead certainly cannot affect us so.

You say that wisdom of the dead person sticks with thosr who are alive, then you say that the dead certainly cannot effect us...................wtf?

Well I'm happy for you that you feel no pain in the loss of a loved one, as I can think of no greater pain.

You say death is a step up? Surely it is incredibly unhealthy to view the dead with jealously.

[Monarchist]

You say that wisdom of the dead person sticks with thosr who are alive, then you say that the dead certainly cannot effect us...................wtf?

Well I'm happy for you that you feel no pain in the loss of a loved one, as I can think of no greater pain.

You say death is a step up? Surely it is incredibly unhealthy to view the dead with jealously.

For one, I said that their wisdom sticks with us - wisdom is given in life. Wisdom is the words they give you and me while they are alive, and all their experiences come out in that wisdom. Death does not really impart wisdom, but keeping the words the deceased said while they were alive does. The two statements don't seem very contradictory to me.

I am not viewing the dead with jealousy. What an odd accusation... How can I be jealous of someone who has gotten to a higher position than me, but a position which I know I have must get to, in the end? Whether it's Hell or Heaven, the end result is at least conclusive. Earth and life on it is quite inconclusive, so of course I am happy that the dead have gone from veiled to unveiled. That is a step up, no matter in which direction!

[Wilder]

Atheists,

If the irreligious mourn the dead, it seems that they are sad over nothing. All the dead man's memories will be subsumed into the Earth within a few generations. If you are mourning someone famous, you are sad over spilled milk, for he shall be remembered for his deeds anyway. Why should you mourn a famous person, who shall be remembered for his works for eternity, even if his entire being has become as dust? To mourn an "Ordinary Joe" is to mourn the eternal peace of unstirred silence, which seems pretty silly, at least to me. If Joe died in pain, it has ended; if he died in peace, that shall be his last moment in eternity. What, then? Why bemoan the loss of the dead, when all you yourself will do is fall into dust and never arise?

I mourn the dead, because if someone passes, then I am deprived of their presence, and that is immensely sad. And to deny that, I think, is to deny part of Human nature. That said, of course, a life well lived is a cause for celebration. Although I do not believe in god in a pattern recognizable to most theists, I do think that matter is imbued with spiritual force, and I mean that in the most literal sense so a return to the stardust that we are made, is not just and end, but also a beginning.

So mourning is a massively complex emotion. Good question.

[Helm]

I thought people mourned because they miss the person who has just died.

[Morkonan]

I mourn the dead for my own loss and the loss that they experience in no longer being able to interact with the living. I feel no shame for doing so. Whatever further path they may trod is between them and God. I can hope they have reached his reward but, that doesn't make me mourn their passing less.

[Helm]

This thread seems to be assuming people mourn for the sake of ritual/because it's an ethical thing to do.

[Nazgûl Killer]

I mourn the dead according to the Jewish faith, but I am an Atheist.
Why? Because the ceremony seems reasonable and wise - We celebrate the deceased's life with his friends and family while bringing support to his/her family and remembering him for what he/she really was.

In any way, I don't think that mourning those who have died is anything close to being a religious value or a religious practice, it's just that the most common ceremonies ARE religious.

[Chlodwig I.]

Mourning is not for the dead but for the Living,

The loss of a child, parent, friend etc. creates e.g stress. it has negative effects on our mental health,
mourning is a way to reduce this negative effects.

[Helm]

It doesn't reduce the negative effectives more it helps get the negative effects out of your system rather than storing it all away where it eventually drives you insane some years later.

[Taiji]

Do I grieve when people close to me die? I can't believe this question can be asked in seriousness.

I want to meet the person that doesn't, I don't believe they exist.

Religion is utterly irrelevant to the question. I can only assume that the 'no' voters are messing with the OP's head.

edit:

The OP is a 'no' voter, hilarious.

[blackwatersix]

I want to meet the person that doesn't, I don't believe they exist.

Well, it's sorta relevant because there are some religions (like certain christian sects) who don't mourn their dead for one reason or another. I believe it's bull however, since my brother (he's not catholic) who belongs to a Born-again church doesn't go to the cemetery because "they don't mourn" but he and the majority of his sect-mates mourn anyway.. just not in the cemetery.

[Monarchist]

The OP is a 'no' voter, hilarious.

I am not so sure why you find this hilarious. There is nothing to mourn in any death, in my opinion, so why should this be anything other than completely serious?