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Thread: Example fort revision.

  1. #21

    Default Re: Example fort revision.

    Have revised OP to add new square fort:



    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/downl...o=file&id=2709
    It's a simpler fort and is intended primarily as a base for further modding (is free to use for other mods but please credit Princes, Kings and Heroes)

    Modding significance of this is it used wilddog's revised editor which allows addition and removal of objects (including game objects like the moat) - tool has been released at beta level and is not really suitable for use unless you've been following (and understanding) the 'world modified' thread.

    The square fort is the last one we intend to release separately to the mod, from here on we intend to get down to making some more detailed models specifically for PKH.

  2. #22
    Gorrrrrn's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: Example fort revision.

    Brilliant new fort - should be very useful for people playing on larger unit size games as many existing (Kingdoms) forts are a pain in that regard.
    many thanks for allowing its use elsewhere.
    quite understand your desire to get on with the Mod - its one I'm looking forward to!

  3. #23
    Caesar Clivus's Avatar SS Forum Moderator
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    Default Re: Example fort revision.

    The new forts look great. Now if there was just a way to add a central keep...

    BftB2 UPDATED 22nd DECEMBER. Member of the Complete Byzantine Unit Roster team

  4. #24
    AnthoniusII's Avatar Μέγαc Δομέστικοc
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    Default Re: Example fort revision.

    Quote Originally Posted by makanyane View Post
    Have revised OP to add new square fort:



    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/downl...o=file&id=2709
    It's a simpler fort and is intended primarily as a base for further modding (is free to use for other mods but please credit Princes, Kings and Heroes)

    Modding significance of this is it used wilddog's revised editor which allows addition and removal of objects (including game objects like the moat) - tool has been released at beta level and is not really suitable for use unless you've been following (and understanding) the 'world modified' thread.

    The square fort is the last one we intend to release separately to the mod, from here on we intend to get down to making some more detailed models specifically for PKH.
    OMG!!!!!! You are in my mind!!! Could you make a version of it with square towers????
    Such a version of fort would fit perfectly in every mod that has Romans after 1st c ad and afcourse Byzantines!!!
    It was a typical frontier fort!!! 4 simple houses around the central square would be the barracks!
    Such forts were ussed also by many other kigdoms the followed the roman herotage like Lombards,Bulgarians,Arabs and many others.
    The 3rd-13th century balkans were full of such forts known by the byzantines as "Kleisurae" because they were build in mountain passages.
    Daras was such a fort...!!!
    Could you make such a varsion??? Pleaseeeeee.....
    TGC in order to continue its development seak one or more desicated scripters to put our campaign scripts mess to an order plus to create new events and create the finall missing factions recruitment system. In return TGC will give permision to those that will help to use its material stepe by step. The result will be a fully released TGC plus many mods that will benefit TGC's material.
    Despite the mod is dead does not mean that anyone can use its material
    read this to avoid misunderstandings.

    IWTE tool master and world txt one like this, needed inorder to release TGC 1.0 official to help TWC to survive.
    Adding MARKA HORSES in your mod and create new varietions of them. Tutorial RESTORED.


  5. #25

    Default Re: Example fort revision.

    I'm glad you're enthusiastic AnthoniusII,
    but, erm, no I'm not volunteering to do it ......

    that was the bit we mentioned about wanting to get on with own mod now.....

    if you find a volunteer milkshape modeller from a Roman mod I'll be happy to help explain how, if you're leaving towers etc in the same locations its not difficult.

  6. #26
    Gorrrrrn's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: Example fort revision.

    quick Q about file names:

    both the base square fort and the cliff castle have unusual worldpkgdesc filenames
    they work OK but I'm wondering if they are significant.

  7. #27

    Default Re: Example fort revision.

    The file name of .worldpkgdesc is irrelevant you can call that
    fred.worldpkgdesc and put it anywhere you want inside /settlements folder.


    Contents of it are relevant .worldpkgdesc contents specify file name and path for
    .world and .worldcollision file, which must share the same name......

    Then .world file specifies file name and path to other files, and .worldterrain specifies path to overlays. Apart from .world and .worldcollision they don't actually have to be called same thing / placed in same folder (assuming you change files to specify different name / path) , its just easier that way.

  8. #28
    Gorrrrrn's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: Example fort revision.

    thanks for that.

  9. #29
    wolfslayer's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Example fort revision.

    Man I am so out of the loop; this looks really nice; must try in saved fort battle I have in SS, will let you know what I think ;-)
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  10. #30
    AnthoniusII's Avatar Μέγαc Δομέστικοc
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    Default Re: Example fort revision.

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfslayer View Post
    Man I am so out of the loop; this looks really nice; must try in saved fort battle I have in SS, will let you know what I think ;-)
    And do the changes i asked above...
    Pleaseeeeeee.......
    TGC in order to continue its development seak one or more desicated scripters to put our campaign scripts mess to an order plus to create new events and create the finall missing factions recruitment system. In return TGC will give permision to those that will help to use its material stepe by step. The result will be a fully released TGC plus many mods that will benefit TGC's material.
    Despite the mod is dead does not mean that anyone can use its material
    read this to avoid misunderstandings.

    IWTE tool master and world txt one like this, needed inorder to release TGC 1.0 official to help TWC to survive.
    Adding MARKA HORSES in your mod and create new varietions of them. Tutorial RESTORED.


  11. #31
    wolfslayer's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Example fort revision.

    Both forts are very nice, a great step for world modification and both look and play great.

    To make either as the default fort for any faction or culture you only need a separate .worldpkgdesc file
    in the same folder as each fort.

    All that needs to be different is the actual worldpkgdesc filename ,the culture/faction, and the function ("default_fort" and variant "wooden_fort")

    Here is an example, since my saved turn was a fort battle as cumans against the mongols, I have to sally out to keep from losing the fort after 3 turns under siege. I prefer an assault to check out the fort but quick way to see it in game.
    Last edited by wolfslayer; January 16, 2010 at 05:36 PM.
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  12. #32

    Default Re: Example fort revision.

    @wolfslayer
    Thanks for the feedback, if you get anything else from test results please let us know

    btw, .worldpkgdesc's don't need to be in same folder as .world
    I mention that not because its an advantage, but more normally a problem.... if you make back-ups of your castle / settlement / fort folders and end up with multiple copies of .worldpkgdesc's in 'copy of... ' folders inside the settlements folder they all still get read, and result in complete mess in terms of what appears in battle!

    that's also part of reason why I don't seem to be able to completely control custom battle variants... game seems determined to read data level .worldpkgdesc's in addition to modfolder ones even if they have same names and paths


    If you do faction specific forts do you know how game determines which faction its loading? For built on map ones presumably it's according to leader who built it? But if you have fixed ones in strat, will that relate to the faction initially in charge of the region, or change if control changes?

    If you wonder why I'm asking and don't know that already... We're developing these to be used (with additions / alterations ) in place of smaller settlements to suit the less populated areas of mod, so I've been testing mainly against settlement sieges rather than forts.

  13. #33
    wolfslayer's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Example fort revision.

    Quote Originally Posted by makanyane View Post
    @wolfslayer
    Thanks for the feedback, if you get anything else from test results please let us know

    btw, .worldpkgdesc's don't need to be in same folder as .world
    I mention that not because its an advantage, but more normally a problem.... if you make back-ups of your castle / settlement / fort folders and end up with multiple copies of .worldpkgdesc's in 'copy of... ' folders inside the settlements folder they all still get read, and result in complete mess in terms of what appears in battle!


    Every pkg file in settlements is read and kept in memory, it's best to keep your data folder as clean as possible.

    I always 7z files I want to back up and usually but not always move them outside my data folder ) or else they are cached when you start game).

    Or I rename the
    pkg (fort_z.worldpkgdesc.1) if I want to disable the settlement without moving..

    As long as you have a packagedb.txt in the root of your mod/data your mod/settlements pkgs always have priority before vanilla/settlements and they should only be read from /settlements:


    packagedb.txt
    ; List of directories to search for packages
    .\settlements



    that's also part of reason why I don't seem to be able to completely control custom battle variants... game seems determined to read data level .worldpkgdesc's in addition to modfolder ones even if they have same names and paths

    packagedb.txt!

    Once again mod folder as clean as possible ;-)

    You can put worldpkgdesc file anywhere in /settlements, as long as they contain the right path to the model they reference.

    If I create 2 buildable forts for 1 faction the one that comes first alphabetically will always load.
    (fort_a always loads, fort_b, never)

    If you do faction specific forts do you know how game determines which faction its loading? For built on map ones presumably it's according to leader who built it? But if you have fixed ones in strat, will that relate to the faction initially in charge of the region, or change if control changes?

    Preplaced forts dont need a faction (faction any), they are owned by the region faction_creator in desc_strat.

    I recommend starting a new campaign in windowed mode with debugview running, sometimes a spot that looks valid is an "invalid tile" and the new fort won't show up or the new campaign will crash, any errors in compiling the new campaign usually show up as long as you have *trace and *script etc. added to your ss.cfg.

    There is also tag in desc_campaign_db.xml that needs exploring.

    <display>
    <character_selection_radius float="0.3"/>
    <character_selection_height float="1.3"/>
    <character_selection_height_crouching float="1.0"/>
    <diplomacy_scroll_height uint="768"/>
    <recruitment_sort_simple bool="false"/>
    <faction_standing_min float="-1.0"/>
    <faction_standing_max float="1.0"/>
    <use_orig_rebel_faction_models bool="true"/>
    <keep_original_heretic_portraits bool="true"/>
    <alt_sett_order_colours bool="true"/>
    <standard_soldier_limit uint="1000"/> <!-- Used to specify range for amry standards (banners) -->
    <standard_soldier_level_scale uint="50"/> <!-- Used to scale army size display compared to standard range specified above -->
    <show_slave_religion bool="true"/>
    <use_faction_creator_sett_models bool="true"/>
    <enable_radar_zoom bool="true"/>
    <hud_tab_text_vert_offset float="0"/>
    <show_building_browser_castles bool="true"/>
    <separate_games_races bool="true"/>
    <clear_battle_models_on_new_faction bool="false"/> <!-- Are unique battle models cleared when a character changes factions -->
    </display>

    Whether it functions for strat or battle or both models needs testing, I know when a general builds a fort
    in my game, it stays that fort regardless who captures/recaptures it.

    Perm forts and buildable forts MUST have a separate worldpkgdesc with a different name for the settlement for the same model. Plus a .worldcollision model that matches the settlement name in worldpkgdesc (the name before the path to the .world model)..


    If you wonder why I'm asking and don't know that already... We're developing these to be used (with additions / alterations ) in place of smaller settlements to suit the less populated areas of mod, so I've been testing mainly against settlement sieges rather than forts.


    You can use any fort as any settlement level for any faction. I could replace huge_city Constantinople with your square fort right now in a few minutes just by altering the worldpkgdesc file. Nothing changes in the city as far as its development is concerned, only the battle model (and if damaged, it would have to be repaired or show up damaged next battle)

    I'll try and elaborate more on these topic to make them more understandable and make a few corrections when I get time..
    WS
    Last edited by wolfslayer; January 16, 2010 at 04:05 PM.
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  14. #34

    Default Re: Example fort revision.

    You can use any fort as any settlement level for any faction. I could replace huge_city Constantinople with your square fort right now in a few minutes just by altering the worldpkgdesc file. Nothing changes in the city as far as its development is concerned, only the battle model (and if damaged, it would have to be repaired or show up damaged next battle)
    yes am doing that / testing that way, which is why I understand procedure for settlements but not so much for forts....

    As long as you have a packagedb.txt in the root of your mod/data your mod/settlements pkgs always have priority before vanilla/settlements and they should only be read from /settlements:
    yeah -ish... everything works for me from any battle generated from campaign, I'm quite happy getting to specific .worlds from any campaign battle, that I can make unique by faction creator / EDB tweaking.... But single player, select settlement level - custom battles, seem to want to look up the main/data level settlements pkgs especially for north_european, even if I make mod level pkgs for each possible faction and include mod level version of the original NE one referring to new pkg...

    applied head to brick wall for a long while over that some time back and didn't get anywhere.... custom battles aren't a big issue but if you want to change wall heights for lower settlements as we do (to use fort variants instead of wooden walled things).... then any vanilla ones turning up in custom battle look very daft.

    I do have packagedb.txt in mod/folder and have tried amending that to look to folders other than settlement, and even tried deleting the data level one (which sends it to look in packs), but haven't so far found way to make it ignore the data level pkgs... even with same named / pathed one in mod folder present....

    can make it read the .world from mod folder even if its the data level pkg setting the path.... but not vice versa

  15. #35
    wolfslayer's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Example fort revision.

    I've seen same problem with custom battle, possibly there is a solution.

    From now on we'll always use "pkg" to refer to the .worldpkgdesc file, it's easier to type, and this file assembles the settlement "package" for the battlemap.

    I've always tested settlements/forts in a hotseat campaign, where if I have to I can switch to and control any faction to "force" settlement battles, and see the results ingame. Who wins and loses the campaign isnt important; I can always add money to build or force a peace, it's a campaign only for testiing battle models.


    I'm going to try a slight alteration with the pkg file I attached above, and test the results in battlemap/debugview, the goal being for it to show up named uniquely in battle editor, and not conflict with your placed fort model.

    Edit: Which I did, it shows up in editor as pkh_base_cu (cumans). walls_castle_large_stone.texture (plus normal and winter texs) is fresh from stock teutonic copied to ss6/data/blockset/textures/faction_variations/cumans
    Last edited by wolfslayer; January 16, 2010 at 05:51 PM.
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  16. #36
    Gorrrrrn's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: Example fort revision.

    wolfslayer
    re the descr_campaign_db.xml entries above.
    from whence do they come?
    I've been through all the 1.5 kingdoms versions to create a composite version but no sign of:

    <use_faction_creator_sett_models bool="true"/>

    <enable_radar_zoom bool="true"/>

    are they created from some place else?

  17. #37
    wolfslayer's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Example fort revision.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rozanov View Post
    wolfslayer
    re the descr_campaign_db.xml entries above.
    from whence do they come?
    I've been through all the 1.5 kingdoms versions to create a composite version but no sign of:

    <use_faction_creator_sett_models bool="true"/>

    <enable_radar_zoom bool="true"/>

    are they created from some place else?

    Hmm I thought these were in 1.5 kingdoms vanilla xml. Definitely in the 1.5 kingdoms.exe.
    So it's a legit variable.

    So is <merge_fort_priority_offset (float="?">) that probably goes at the top of campaign_ai_db.xml. But how and where that works needs testing.
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  18. #38

    Default Re: Example fort revision.

    Its very Amazing that some excellent modders are making experiments on battlemap models!

    My team has the dream to make new wall-models for the huge cities, so we are studying this hard stuff.

    First I want to place the files of the huge city in my modfolder, for starting to make changes.
    Now I have the problem that I cannot make the game using this new files,
    although I've read the whole thread.
    I had changed the path to the new ''.world''-file in the ''.worldpkgdesc'' file with a hex-editor,
    But it doesnt work. In game, there is always the original city.
    Is there anything else to do for changing the files of the settlements?
    Or can anyone be so kind please to explain in a few steps what I've to do exactly?

    You can use any fort as any settlement level for any faction. I could replace huge_city Constantinople with your square fort right now in a few minutes just by altering the worldpkgdesc file. Nothing changes in the city as far as its development is concerned, only the battle model (and if damaged, it would have to be repaired or show up damaged next battle)
    When I read this, I wonder what is going wrong

  19. #39

    Default Re: Example fort revision.

    If you want to change say all the north european huge cities to use your new huge city .world you don't need to change anything with the .worldpkgdesc - you can instead just place your new files with same name and paths as the original ones but in the mod folder like (this is actually most reliable way to get changes to turn up in custom battles):

    mods\mod_folder\data\settlements\north_european\settlements\huge_city\north_european_huge_city_a.world and
    mods\mod_folder\data\settlements\north_european\settlements\huge_city\north_european_huge_city_a.worldcollision

    you could for instance use my pkh_base_sq.world and pkh_base_sq.worldcollision and re-name them to 'north_european_huge_city_a....' and put them on that path in mod folder and they should turn up reliably instead of the huge city. (remember though that the .world file contain the path and file names to all the rest of the files, except .worldcollision, so it'd still be looking for 'settlements/pkh/pkh_base_sq/pkh_base_sq.animinstances' etc... unless you hex edit that to move them.....



    if you want to use your new huge city only for a certain faction, then you would need to make a new .worldpkgdesc specifically for them - instead of having 'faction any'. To get that to read you need a copy of the
    'packagedb.txt' file in your mod-folder, standard one of those says:
    ; List of directories to search for packages
    .\settlements
    which means it searches all the folders inside \settlements folder of your mod-folder at start up for pkgs

    note that faction specific settlements work according to the faction that built that level of the settlement (faction creator in descr_strat if its at start up) and not according to who occupies it..... faction specific settlements / things re-routed by pkgs don't seem to turn up reliably in custom battles, it still tends to default to original ones - so do try testing from campaign generated battles.

  20. #40

    Default Re: Example fort revision.

    Thanks!

    I also tried to simply replace the files first before I found this tread, like everyone would do it.
    But something went wrong, surely because I didnt know what to do.
    I just start to work with the settlements.

    But now it works. I tried your example with your square forts, I think so I can transfer it to the normal models.

    BTW: I have an Problem using the IWTE tool, when I've made some changes in ms3d files.
    When I want to include the edited models back into the world file, it says:
    struct.error: unpack requires a string argument of lenght 4
    What does that mean?

    Maybe I can start modeling when this problem gets solved.
    Other question in this direction: I see, When I pack/unpack a structure model, the worldcollision file and animinstances are also affected. Does that mean my changes are applied to them automatically, so I do not have to edit them? I couldnt believe this

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